Newcomb Varieties Of Large Cent.

I tried to post a large picture before of an other coin but the coin optimizer page didn't work. I optimized the image and it still said no pictured of 100k. I could post a picture saved in Photobucket. Just because information is available on the web doesn't mean it is completely free. For example, there are Google ads on this site. On the other hand though, ads have a low click through rate and if you sell the book, you are guaranteed a certain amount. I read somewhere those reference books can get really expensive and I would think that is partly because the volume being sold just isn't there.

Actually, I just found that if you have paid membership to NGC because you submit coins to them, your paid membership includes a database with all the Newcomb varieties that NGC identifies and adds to your slab when you get the coin graded. I have read about people good at picking out and identifying varieties and pick them out at shows and shops and was wondering where they got there information from. The least expensive copy of "Attribution Guide for United States Large Cents 1840-1857" for sale is for $250.

SsuperDdave, thanks for the link.

The late dates can be very difficult to attribute. The only really "noticeable" variation between them comes from the position of the date punch with respect to the bust above it and the denticals below. Other than that positioning the only other features are cracks and tiny points or lines left on the die face from the surface finishing. These points and lines are often difficult to see even on high grade coins (XF and up). On lower grade coins they can be impossible and typically they will not show up in images even on high grade coins.

What I can see after I blow up the enlarged image above is that the point of the bust does not the left edge of the point of the one. Going by the date positioning numbers in Grellman it is in position 3 or 4. The point of the curl over the 8 is to the right of the center of the right side of the 8 but is left of the right edge of the 8. That would be position 6 or 7. The combination of those two positions eliminates everything except N-7,8,21,22 and (26). The distance of the 4 from the curl above it I estimate is position 5 or 6. (3 would be just touching it and 4 almost touching. It is down further than that but not OBVIOUSLY away which would be 7.) That eliminates N-21 and (26). ow here is where I run into a problem. The left edge of the left foot of the 1 is clearly over the center if the dentical. That is position 1. None of N-7,8 or 22 have that position. Looking over the table of date position numbers that position only shows up on four varieties and two of them have position numbers nowhere close to the other numbers I've come up with so far. But N-9 and (27) is close. So far I have come up with 4 or 5, 6 or 7, and 5 or 6 and 1. (Point of Bust, Point of curl, distance of 4 from curl, and edge of foot over dentical.) N-9 and (27) have numbers 4,8,5,1. I can't explain that 8 but other than that it is a very good fit. 9 and (27) share the same obv so I check other diagnostics listed in the book and I can't see much EXCEPT, a small lump just above and to the right of the right foot of Y in LIBERTY, and he says the lower half of the date is weakly impressed in the die. Those both fit. From other descriptions of those two varieties I would say it is either a late N-9 or an early N-(27) and I am leaning toward a late N-9 because I think I can see a small point coming out horizontally from the middle of the right upright of the M in AMERICA. N-(27) doesn't have that but the N-9 does.

It's refreshing to hear this from someone else on the forum. I have the Grellmann book and use it all the time. It's a great reference but the markers that identify the variety of the late dates are often very minor markers and often are not visible unless the coin is in great condition. I also try to use the date but even it is not easy. I find the early large cents generally easier to attribute because of significant die variations.

I got the Grellman book from the ANA Library checkout for no cost other than postage. I was very frustrated with it because it seemed written for mint state examples only. My circulated coins could not be attributed. Next time I get it, I will pay closer attention to the date placement which is cumbersome too.

Well, a few months back, on another thread with essentially the same topic, someone suggested the Dan Holmes collection photos (available online in relevant auction archives).
I suppose I'd better link that thread, because it has lots of other good links and discussion