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 Replies: 10 / Views: 3,099 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
807 Posts |
I'm looking for anyone who has specimens of the Thai coinage of 1860, specifically the one baht (eight stars). I purchased one in the most recent Numismatics International auction, & suspect it to be a trial strike, because it is off-center, & appears to have been struck without a collar. But I have nothing to compare it to! I have heard in other sources that setting up the machinery for the first ever flat circular coins of Siam took quite a while, which is why I am tempted to consider that this piece was made before things got quite sorted out. Even if they all look like this, it's an amazing thing to own, doubly so considering what I paid for it. I found on-line a lecture on the coinage of the Bangkok Dynasty by R.S. LeMay, delivered before the Siam Society on 20 May 1924, which describes the piece. It is necessary to refer to a Decree which was promulgated by King Mongkut on the 2nd day of the waxing moon of the 11th month of the year of the Monkey (27 September 1860...
Thereforhe His Majesty had decided to establish a Royal Mint for the issue of a new silver coinage, "equal in every respect to the coinage of that State of Europe which is called France". The basis of the issue was to be the Tical, and the subsidiary coinage was to consist of 2 Salung, Salung, and Fuang pieces. As regards the design chosen, I cannot do better than describe it in the words of the decree :â€"
"On one side (the obverse) there is a picture of the Royal Crown in the center. There are Royal Umbrellas supporting it on both sides. There are branches of trees, looking like flames, added to the background of the coin.
"On the other side (the reverse) is a picture of the Chakr. In the heart of the Chakr is a picture of an Elephant, symbol of the Kingdom of Siam. On the outside of the circle, round the Chakr, in the case of the Tical value, are 8 starts, each star representing 1 Fuang : the 2 Salung piece has 4 stars, representing 4 Fuang : the Salung has two stars, and the Fuang 1 star."
As you can see, the die is not centered over the flan, which appears to be somewhat too large. Also the strike seems to be a bit weak, but not uniformly so. I tend to think it was struck without a collar, & spread. The condition of the (plain) edge, which I can only describe as somewhat rounded or soft, gives the same impression. (The mark on the elephant's leg is some kind of chop, slightly resembling an I.)
The separation between the edge of the die & the edge of the coin can again be seen here, in the same position as on the obverse, accounting for the "coin" rotation. You can also see that the denomination stars are actually on both sides, which ight not be inferred from the decree. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
This one looks consistent with other examples. I notice some of these are more crude and others more well struck. Very possibly an earlier strike, but doubtful it's a trial.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
807 Posts |
Thanks for responding!
My primary source for the idea that it took considerable time & trouble to get the machinery working as desired is Sweeny's "Numismatic History of the Birmingham Mint". He indicates that the machinery was purchased from Heaton's, & the presses were still in use as of his writing, in the 1970s. I like to imagine that this coin was made on the same press as some of my other Thai pieces. Many of the later ones show a high standard of workmanship indeed. The incuse devices in the field of the 10 baht BE2514 are especially remarkable.
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Tend to agree with Numismat's conclusion: Quote:
I notice some of these are more crude and others more well struck. Very possibly an earlier strike, but doubtful it's a trial. Publis, please look at my specimen. I find it a crude and low relief striking, please also note the edge on the reverse side, there is a small mass of silver at the position of 5 o'clock. I don't know why it is. There is a psedo-collar at some part of the coin so when viewed at the lateral sides, it produce a wrong perception of the thickness of the coin is uneven (but it isn't). On the whole, the striking technique was poor for this coin. For your coin, a off-centred strike does not mean a trial necessarily. Publis, can you also tell where I can read the information you had quoted (Lecture of R.S. LeMay). Weight 15.36 grs, 31.2-31.4mm, medal alignment.      |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
807 Posts |
Mr. LeMay's piece is to be found in the Journal of the Siam Society (under Royal patronage), volume 18.2. If you look through the cumulative index, it appears that there are several more articles on similar subjects. Interesting that yours is medal alignment. Mine is coin alignment, perhaps 5 degrees off. Edited by publius
07/19/2013 1:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Thailand
1509 Posts |
Here is mine for comparison. Don't know if enough details are there. I'm afraid I don't have it to hand at the moment to make a better scan (the image is from Don's World Coin Gallery).  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
807 Posts |
So it looks as though the weak, off-center, & possibly broad strike is, at least, not uncommon for this issue. That piece in the ebay auction hardly looks genuine, although I'm no judge. |
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Valued Member
United Arab Emirates
283 Posts |
Someone told me a while back that old Thai coins are one of the most counterfeited coins of all time. Although I do doubt that because of the many Ancient Chinese counterfeits
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Stuart, a reputable seller so I don't think it is fake.
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Pillar of the Community
Thailand
1509 Posts |
Over the years I have been offered a few of these and (especially in the early days) I passed on them suspecting them to be counterfeits. The only one I have, pictued above, cost me 1,500 baht ($50) but I was convinced of its authenticity. Of the others I thought of as genuine (about 60%) were not in as good a grade.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 3,099 |
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Posted 07/16/2013 01:21 am
