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Ireland Experiment With Dropping 1c And 2c Coins

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Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
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 Posted 07/21/2013  5:00 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I see Ireland are experimenting with dropping the 1 cent and 2 cent coins

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23372703

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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
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 Posted 07/21/2013  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not surprised - when I was in Ireland way back in 2001 I saw very few 1p and 2p coins around, and those were worth considerably more then than 1c and 2c are now.

I don't see the need actually to abolish and demonetise low value coins, though. Prior to the introduction of the Euro, the French 1 centime coin (one-hundredth of a franc and approximately one-tenth of a British penny) was still legal tender. Shops often priced items to the nearest centime. But the coin itself had been quite rare since about 1975 and had virtually disappeared from circulation in the early 1980s. The mint simply stopped making them (except in BU and Proof sets) and the ones in circulation were saved by collectors or hoarded. Shops normally gave change to the nearest 5c unless they happened to have some 1c coins (or some of the 1941-59 aluminium 1F and 2F coins) in their tills.
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cipriani's Avatar
Brazil
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 Posted 07/21/2013  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cipriani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here in Brazil, there are no 1c coins since 2004
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redlock's Avatar
Germany
992 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2013  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add redlock to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Netherlands (a few yeras ago) and Finland (from the start) have also dropped the 1c and 2c from circulation. Both denominations are still legal tender though and minted for coin sets and collectors.
The EU commission has recently ordered a review of the 1c and 2c coins. It shall determine whether to end production/phase them out/change metal composition. A recommandation is expected in the fall. Then ALL the Finance Ministers of the Euro Zone will determine how to procede within the entire Euro Zone.
I can tell you, that 1c and 2c coins are still in heavy use here in Germany.
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NumisRob's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2013  02:58 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was in a shop in the Netherlands just a few weeks ago (admittedly very near the German border) and was given two 1c coins (both German)in change.
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publius's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2013  02:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Considering the enormous numbers of cents the US Mint has produced every year for decades, we ought to just suspend production. Let people empty out their jars, if the coins are needed so badly!
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Fuzzy317's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2013  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
publius
Considering the enormous numbers of cents the US Mint has produced every year for decades, we ought to just suspend production. Let people empty out their jars, if the coins are needed so badly!

just in my bulk rolls, I have 84 rolls of LMC.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2013  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well done. We Americans should learn from this.

And we will.......in about 20 years.


Quote:
Considering the enormous numbers of cents the US Mint has produced every year for decades, we ought to just suspend production. Let people empty out their jars, if the coins are needed so badly!

Believe it or not if we did just stop production the cent would probably be gone as a circulating coin within a years time. It would rapidly become so difficult for businesses to get enough to use as change that they would voluntarily start rounding. And once enough businesses started doing that requests for cents at the banks would dry up. Without requests banks would just start shipping whatever did come in back to the Fed where they would sit because the banks would no longer be requesting them either. And with a stockpile in the Fed there would never be a reason to resume production.

Believe me, we don't make umpteen billion cents every year because the economy has grown so much it NEEDS umpteen billion more cents in circulation. They need those umpteen billion cents to replace the umpteen billion cents that went into change jars last year and aren't coming back out into circulation.
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publius's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2013  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any suspension of the cent coinage should be accompanied by a publicity campaign encouraging people to dig out the ones in their sock drawers & put them back into circulation. And if they don't start reappearing immediately, but they're really needed for change, either the banks or the merchants will start paying a premium for them. Would "receive $1.01 in credit for every 100 cents" bring them out?
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2013  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But if anyone (you) catches wind of the upcoming suspension:

Day before suspension: Withdraw entire bank account in pennies
Suspension in effect: Weeks/months of fun searching all the rolls
Sometime later:
- Sell huge volume of copper: 1.5x your money.
- Cash in zinc: 1.01x (or whatever) your money.
- Countless wheats, IHCs, piles of Canadian, plenty 2 euro-cents, dimes, etc. (maybe even a Flying Eagle): keep and enjoy.

But there would probably be a huge penny crunch as everyone raced to withdraw as many as they could...

...but since people would be motivated to cash in their whole change jars, pennies included, look out for a wave of nicer condition and silver coins in your rolls!

Our penny was taken out back and put down in the middle of the night, promotions be damned. Some people don't even think they're legal tender anymore, and give them away free...
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 07/24/2013  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Believe me, we don't make umpteen billion cents every year because the economy has grown so much it NEEDS umpteen billion more cents in circulation. They need those umpteen billion cents to replace the umpteen billion cents that went into change jars last year and aren't coming back out into circulation.
Copy, paste, quote. Saved me a lot of typing.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 07/25/2013  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any suspension of the cent coinage should be accompanied by a publicity campaign encouraging people to dig out the ones in their sock drawers & put them back into circulation. And if they don't start reappearing immediately, but they're really needed for change, either the banks or the merchants will start paying a premium for them. Would "receive $1.01 in credit for every 100 cents" bring them out?

Ever lived through a coin/cent shortage? I have, a couple if them. I've seen public appeals for people to turn back in their cents, didn't work. I've seen banks and businesses offering as much as $1.10 per dollar for cents, didn't work. Some places were already starting to round. And mind you this was while the mint was still striking cents. The only thing that ended the shortage was greatly increased production at the mint.

Frankly the premium offer was probably counterproductive. If they are paying a 10% premium now do you turn in what you have, or do you try and hoard up whatever you can get hoping for a higher premium later?
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publius's Avatar
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 Posted 07/25/2013  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What do they do with them?

I'm asking this as a serious question, because I find it very hard to wrap my head around. The Mint turns out something like fifty cent coins per head of population every year. Why would people salt them away, rather than putting them to the use of current money?

I've always been one to separate out the cents from the rest of the coins I receive in change, or pick them up off the ground, & as soon as I get up to 50, I roll them & take the roll into the bank, or else just use it when paying for something (since businesses are usually glad to get them). Now, not everybody likes to count coins, but they can take them into the banks, or those CoinStar machines at the grocery stores! What possible motive is there for letting them pile up?
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NumisRob's Avatar
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 Posted 07/25/2013  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've never lived through a coin shortage in the UK, but I visited Italy frequently in the 1970s and 1980s and there always seemed to be a shortage of small change. Although coins of 5, 10 and 20 lire existed, the smallest coin found in regular use was the 50L, and sometimes the 100L. If you were buying a single low value item like a can of soda, a bag of crisps or a picture postcard, it really put the price up - although the shop assistant would sometimes give you a few sweets, a book of matches or a postage stamp in change!
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publius's Avatar
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 Posted 07/25/2013  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've heard from other people who visited Italy in that time period that the smallest-value coins frequently weren't accepted in the shops, & as a result you had to use them to buy cigarettes, or something, from vending machines, & trade those for larger denominations. Apparently this is why Italy has been the seat of agitation for 1 & 2 Euro notes : the people don't believe coins to be worth anything, so even small articles are priced at E5, because that's the smallest note.

I don't understand people, & that's for sure.
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