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 Replies: 31 / Views: 4,257 |
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Valued Member
United States
140 Posts |
After investing in Coins, Silver, and Old Paper Currency, I have decided that maybe it is time to purchase some gold. Living on a Budget this can be a bit tricky, seeing as how for 1 Five Dollar American Eagle Piece around $150.00, I can buy 6 American Silver Eagles. I have found a local Gold and Silver dealer who are just great folks. I haven't asked them about this but I would like to ask you all your opinion on the purchase of for better words "cheaper gold". In an Example.. would you say the better Gold Purchase is the $150.00 American Eagle 1/10 ounce coin.. or do you take that same $150.00 and buy say a 2.5 Gram bar off of APMEX. The end state is just as an investment. I don't see me buying it today, to sale tomorrow. I see this is as a long term investment with the end state goal being to have an ounce of Gold within a 8-12 month period. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Japan
666 Posts |
I buy legal tender fractionals ... no bars
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1200 Posts |
I'm with Bekiz--go with the govt fractional coin over the mini-bar. The fractional gold vs. 6 ASEs question is another question entirely, and something
else that weighs in is state sales tax. If the state you're in charges ST on this kind of sale, your $150 purchase just probably jumped to $162 or more.
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Valued Member
 United States
140 Posts |
I currently live in South Carolina.. no sales tax on silver or gold. I assume the government fractional currency is the 1/10 ounce 1/4 ounce 1/2 ounce 3/4 ounce or 1 ounce American Eagle Gold Coins? Not to be "that guy" but what are some of the reasons why you would not want to buy like the Aussie Gold Gram Bars or 1 Gram / 5 Gram / or 10 gram bars. Sorry so many questions just trying to get educated.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Anything produced by a reputable national mint like the fractional maples almost always is more popular and sought after than after market things. There are some exceptions like old pour englehard bars, but the national mints give a confidence in the product and usually a collector base as well. Theres also the off chance they could gain a numismatic premium in a year with poor sales or increasing popularity which you have basically no chance of with an APMEX bar. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1200 Posts |
On fractional coins--you can get American Eagles, Canadian Maples, Austrian Philharmonics, Mexican Libertads, South African Krugerrands, Chinese Pandas, Australian Kangaroos, or Perth Mint Lunar Series... Look up gold bullion in the APMEX website. I prefer to keep it local and simple by sticking with AGE's because I know I can always sell them anywhere without getting any questions or hesitation. Others will prefer other coins or insist on proofs only. I wouldn't buy 1 gram bars because the premium % on those little flakes gets outrageous. It's a personal thing--but if I was going to buy gold bars I'd only buy the ones that come in a serial numbered assay card (e.g: PAMP), but I'd nonetheless prefer to stick with (1/10oz or preferably 1/4oz) AGEs. |
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
If the goal is to have 1 oz of gold in 8-12 months and hold it long term I would save up and buy an 1 oz gold eagle. It will cost you a lot less per oz than buying ten 1/10th gold eagles because the premiums are less on the bigger coins. I also just think the larger coins are nicer because you can see the detail without a magnification.
If you are set on small fractionals I would choose gold eagles over tiny bars for the same reason others have stated.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I like the bars, so to each their own.... However I like to buy numismatic gold mostly old gold... I talk too much so KISS (keep it simple stupid) Three things is how I operate.... 1. I buy old US gold coins, Indians and Cornet heads, mostly.... 2. I buy commemorative gold like 1986 Liberty, 1987 Constitution, the Jamestown, the world war 2 set, etc.. The sets which also come with 90% silver coin and clad coin, you all now them well or the single gold coin and COA solo. (again close to spot) 3. Mexico gold pesos (any old foreign gold usually close to spot so I get those as well French 20 Franc Rooster and such great buys at 1/5 oz. roughly) are GREAT VALUE for cost, love those and will buy them all day, via 2.5 or 5 or 10 pesos.... What do they all have in common, they all yield ebay bucks and they are always all close to spot, and way sought after none the less. Just don't buy in any hopes of flipping fast for well above spot anytime soon or ever as the will not happen via #2 or #3.... The old US gold however when graded by PCGS or NGC will yield good above spot say MS-62 and up..... Edited by Silverhawk74
08/04/2013 11:25 pm
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Valued Member
United States
456 Posts |
On the other hand, buying small fractional sized bars may make sense if you have a local dealer who sells them at a reasonable price. For example, I have a local shop that sells gold bars at 3% over spot, whether 1 gram or 1 oz. So, finding a 1 gram assayed Engelhard or Pamp bar for 3% over spot is a great deal in my opinion. I don't necessarily agree that you should save up to buy a full oz. If you buy them 1/10th at a time, yes, 10 will cost more than a single one oz coin. However, you can recover that premium when selling. I simply disagree with anyone who says otherwise. I've done it time and again without issue. There's a much larger market for people who can afford/collect 1/10 oz coins than full oz coins, which naturally inflates the premium on them -- when buying AND selling. Here is an interesting discussion that was held earlier debating 1/10 vs. 1/4 oz gold coins. Lots of different opinions: https://goccf.com/t/135801&whichpage=1 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I totally agree SDcrow, and 1-10z are a bargain in my mind right now around 150 or less.... I see many great Maple leaf 24k from MCM end at 150.50 in fact I won one this weekend going against my ebay bucks theory, but hey cant get them 100% of time and still get great world 1-10z.... I truly love the 2013 Australia 1-10z, and the Phil Harmonics and they sell under 155..... I have ONE 1 oz piece in house, they just are not practical and that is a MS-63 St. Gauden 1928 double eagle lol, kind of special beyond size.... I stick to half oz. gold or less, premiums or not, like said it all comes back out in sold premiums later.... I don't know why this is big deal to most, if it commands a premium it will yield it later, and if you get it real close to spot it will sell real close to spot later.... The old saying, ya get what ever you are willing to pay for comes to mind.... Now then on flip side much new HIGH premium stuff hitting market every day, and SOME of it which brings 12 or 15 spot now, could very well loose its fire and a few years from now be forgotten and pushed under rug so to speak and demoted back to near spot prices.... That is something everyone should always consider IMO.... Edited by Silverhawk74
08/04/2013 11:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
LOL gold is gold, people! Buy broken jewellery!
Rethink why you want gold. Do you want gold the metal, or do you want money?
So SHawk: You pay a premium when buying and selling, OR you don't pay a premium buying nor selling. What is the point, then, of buying things with premiums? You'll have to expect the buyer to pay that premium when selling. If you're truly looking for premium items they better be art-related or unique. Anything mass-produced (even at a premium) just isn't prestigious in my eyes. Thousands of people can say they have what you have, so it's not special.
I guess my point is, that it's just a metal. I wouldn't get wrapped in it as a way of making money because it really takes a long time. My advice is to wait.
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Pillar of the Community
Japan
666 Posts |
Quote:
Anything mass-produced (even at a premium) just isn't prestigious in my eyes. Exactly! In your eyes. In my eyes it looks different :_) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I don't sell pmz anymore Liber I only stack for down the road so a bit here or more there for item is dust in the wind long term in my eyes and irrelevant..... I simply met if one buys a gold comm coin just over spot price, when ever he or she sells in short or long position it probably will only yield same percentage beyond spot whatever that may be at the time.... On the flip side of that lets use Pamp assay silver bars carded for example, if anyone follows these semi close they realize they tend to average about 13 dollars over spot, so as spot is around 20 you can get a 100 gram bar right now ebay APMEX at 92 an 5 ship so 97 so that is a bit over 13 per oz. as stated.... That seems to be norm with PAMP, so if silver hit 40 again anytime soon, they would be selling at around 53 per oz.. So my point pay a bit more, get a bit more back later and maybe then some if SPOT is way higher then when one made initial buy.... I don't see whats so complicated about that.... Edited by Silverhawk74
08/05/2013 09:57 am
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
I think the fractional vs 1 oz debate comes down to how you buy. If you have a good local shop that sells fractions with little to no premium then that may be the way to go. If you are like me and have to buy from an online retailer like APMEX then buying fractional increases the cost significantly especially when factoring in shipping. I would not fully recover the premium if I sold to APMEX. They list sell and buy prices on their site, so this difference is easy to see. If I buy ten 1/10 oz AGE's from APMEX I will pay $205 more (14%) than buying a single 1 oz AGE. If I then sell those ten 1/10th oz AGE's to APMEX I will lose $227 to the spread between buy/sell vs. $93 for a single 1 oz AGE. So if buying and selling from APMEX, fractions cost more to buy and more to sell than 1 oz coins. |
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Valued Member
United States
140 Posts |
Wow! Thanks everyone on the knowledge and reasoning behind what you would or would not do. I think I am going to stick with the 1/10 ounce American gold eagle round. The guy that I buy from said I can always trade up, and they will buy back the 1/10 ounce from me. So we will see.
I had thought about saving up to buy that 1 Ounce Gold Coin, but with that much money all at once.. it would be hard to not spend it somewhere else, or if my wife seen it, she would want to know where we are going on vacation :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
IF you want to invest in gold, and you are new you need to decide how you are going to do it. I highly suggest this method- 1- tap the futures market 2- using exchange traded funds, such as the GLD. 3- buying only select gold proof coins from government mints, such as the RCM, US Mint or SAM as examples. When investing in gold you have to understand that it is a commodity. It will be much more volatile than owning other assets such as stocks. You should consider the most highly liquid manner for accessing the gold market. The best manner to invest is buying the GLD fund. It taps into the gold market, it is still gold and nothing but gold. Furthermore, you can easily get in and out of this market. You can also hedge and protect your investment. With coins, you cannot do that. Also, you wont be able to get the best price from dealers which means you will have to sell them direct to another investor. When buying coins, I say buy the BIGGEST size you can get. The bigger the size, the more liquidity and the more premium you can command. In fact, because most investors and collectors will be going for smaller sizes, I think your biggest bang for the buck will be buying the largest size gold coins you can buy. |
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Replies: 31 / Views: 4,257 |
Posted 08/04/2013 7:15 pm
