Updating :authentic And Counterfeit/Fake Silver Coins

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Author	Replies: 14 / Views: 4,116
Mila_cent Pillar of the Community United States 1767 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 12:47 am Awhile ago I made a post about comparing Fake and Authentic Silver coins. The post was viewed 102 times and received no responses, opinions or comments. I just assumed there wasn't much interest in the topic. There are many of us collectors including myself that have no idea on what to focus on when determining between a fake and an authentic silver coin in hand or by images. I received one of the 'fake' Morgan from a fellow collector who bought 4 of these coins, believing it was the 'real deal'. She was heartbroken when it was confirmed they were 'fakes'. Now... I found the post which she posted about her Morgan and read the responses which was given. And to be honest with you I do not have a clue as to what lead you to say it was fake just by looking at the pics. I have made it my mission to send her an authentic Morgan in place of the 'fake' she believed was real. Since I received the coin (today) I have been studying it and looking at it over and over again, then I would let it go for a few minutes or so, to allow my eyes to refocus and to make sure I wasn't seeing something that wasn't there. As I am typing this post I am also looking and comparing both 'fake and authentic' Morgans (in hand and on my desktop) and I now SEE the difference. 1 - First off the fake (1885) weighs 24.0g where as the real (1891) weighs 26.7g 2 - They are both exactly the same size in diameter 38.1mm 3 - And here's the kicker---even though they are same in diameter the 'fake' 1885 Morgan STILL looks smaller. How can that be? (which is why I had to allow my eyes to refocus) OBV 4 - In looking at Lady Liberty I see her 'head' on the fake coin is facing 'straight' to the left whereas the real coin is facing left but tilted as if looking up. Now, I don't know if this is one of the 'signs' that tell you weather it is or not fake , but it is what I am seeing. 5 - The lips on the fake (1885) is not as in the real (1891) full. 6 - The chin and around the jaw , not sure how to describe , the 1885 more pointy then rounded as in the 1891 7 - The ear, well in this sample is obvious. 8 - As for the hair (curls) I don't see anything unless I am not seeing it. 9 - The dots around the coin it self (what are they called) ? The 1885's are as I said rounded 'dots' whereas the 1891 are not. 10 - The words (lettering) in the 1885 are fuller, bolder whereas the 1891 are thinned out. Don't quite know how to word it out. They just don't look right, different. 11 - I tried to photograph both in the same straight line and I see the date 1885 is centered where the 1891 is slightly towards the left and not centered at all. REV 12 - Now for the reverse. (1885) Straight up ! The words (lettering) is bold. The stars before and after 'ONE DOLLAR' is fuller (plumped). 13 - The 1885 eagle's head and neck looks a tad smaller (shorter) and thinner. I have added another image OBV and REV pointing to areas I see that are in question below. If I missed anything Please let us know. Image: OBV1labled.jpg 91.1 KB Image: REV2 labled.jpg 66.22 KB My reasoning of posting this is to learn. I for one would like to see some more of this of other fake coins. I am sure other members who are not aware of how to detect a 'fake' Morgan or any other coin would find this very helpful. I feel there should be other coins, be it gold or silver to have a 'side by side' view as a learning tool for us newbies and YN's collectors alike. Mom? Dad? What do you guys think? Thanks for taking the time to read this, mila_ Report this Post to the Staff

Tykimeister Pillar of the Community United States 882 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 03:14 am Very good work, Mila. Yes, fakes are quite disturbing to the Coin World. I think your observations are quite good. I think your doing the right thing to help yourslef, and others, from buying fake coins in the future. Might I add a fake I bought (yes, the only fake I bought). Just like yours, mine was probably casted. The "3" was a dead giveaway, but like I said, it was my first learning experience that costed me about $40 to some individual in China who apparently is in dire need of money. On the back you can see the "cc" is a dead giveaway, as well as many of the things you already noted. Everyone study these pics well and never buy a coin from China. Never!! Ty Report this Post to the Staff
Tykimeister Pillar of the Community United States 882 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 03:16 am Mila, that "5" on the 1885 looks a lot like the "3" on my 1893. Or am I just not looking at it right? Report this Post to the Staff
DoubleDie Valued Member United States 214 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 08:15 am Great information. I will add a link to this from my website, and should be submitted as a guide on ebay. How I determine a fake is by the letter's font and how "thick" they look compared to an authentic coin. Your coin above has higher relief lettering, but much more wear than the authentic Morgan for comparison. Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 09:26 am The 1885 bears a reverse that was only used in 1921. The arrow fletches are the giveaway. That's why it's absolutely a fake. I don't know anything about the rest of the details. Report this Post to the Staff
SeatedNut Pillar of the Community United States 2797 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 09:35 am Very interesting topic, thanks Mila for resurrecting it. I've seen many counterfeits in my days as a collector. Many are downright laughable. What always strikes me first is the date. The numbers always look slightly or sometimes grotesquely odd ... the serifs are gone and the ovals are blobbed. Take a look at your 1885 and note the "1" and compare it to the "1" in the 1891. If you have any notion that something isn't right, you're probably looking at a fake. Report this Post to the Staff
Mila_cent Pillar of the Community United States 1767 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 12:18 pm Ty... I myself have never bought any coins that were 'fake.' I don't normally buy coins outside of respectable dealers or from members of this form. But in my travels around the city, I may pass by a coin store and would surely walk in to 'browse around. I am sure that if I was to see something in one of these 'stores' I would probably 'buy' it, not knowing I was being duped. And being who I am I would go back to this store and confront the owner. In other words I would make a 'big stink' ...loud and clear. I do not take such actions lightly. They would either have to call the cops or refund my money. You quoted--" The "3" was a dead giveaway, " " On the back you can see the "cc" is a dead giveaway " Why? How? I don't see it. The "5" on the 1885 looks like a 5 to me. A added closeup for you....You tell me. quote: I will add a link to this from my website, and should be submitted as a guide on ebay. DoubleDie... Do your thing ! And if you think you need to add or revise anything please do. I am here to learn. quote: The 1885 bears a reverse that was only used in 1921. The arrow fletches are the giveaway. SuperDave... I don't quite understand this statement. Please explain. quote: Take a look at your 1885 and note the "1" and compare it to the "1" in the 1891. SeatedNut.. Yes, I looked at it again and I see what you mean. Thanks Guys, mila_ Edited by Mila_cent 06/02/2007 12:30 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Mila_cent Pillar of the Community United States 1767 Posts	Posted 06/02/2007 11:49 pm I am testing myself to see if I can spot a fake Morgan. I think it's fake. Am I wrong? Still need to study? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...rch_SO:SI:IT Thanks, mila_ Edited by Mila_cent 06/04/2007 02:14 am Report this Post to the Staff
yechi7 Pillar of the Community United States 717 Posts	Posted 06/03/2007 01:40 am I posted this in a reply to another thread, but I'll repeat it here: In the book, "Strike It Rich With Pocket Change, by Brian Allen & Ken Potter, they point out, on page 232, a quick & easy test, known by many coin dealers, to differentiate between Silver & non-silver coinage: Lay coins on a flat surface, lay a white tissue directly over the coins & then apply a light over the top. A silver or even partial silver coin will appear white in comparison to the grayish-brown color of the normal circulation coin. Test this with Nickel, Dimes or Quarters. You can also test this out with a large Silver coin and a non-silver Dime on top of it. The color difference between the normal coin and a silver coin will be easy to distinguish. You should still conduct a weight & metal observation test to make sure. Report this Post to the Staff
Tykimeister Pillar of the Community United States 882 Posts	Posted 06/03/2007 01:49 am Mile, on the coin I showed you, the "cc" is too small, thin, and placed wrongly. On the front the "3" is too slim and sticks out like a sore thumb compaired to a normal 3, or the rest of the numbers on the coin. Report this Post to the Staff
Mila_cent Pillar of the Community United States 1767 Posts	Posted 06/03/2007 02:37 am Sorry Ty, I misunderstood your comment. mila_ Edited by Mila_cent 06/03/2007 02:38 am Report this Post to the Staff
SeatedNut Pillar of the Community United States 2797 Posts	Posted 06/03/2007 10:06 am Mila ... regarding the 21-D Morgan you linked. I would like to know why you think it is fake. It does look "unusual" at first glance. To me the coin looks well-worn and polished, but genuine. It definitely is not an XF+ and should only be bought at melt if you need a to fill a hole. Do you believe it's a counterfeit due to its "shiny appearance"? Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 06/03/2007 10:20 am Mila_cent, the reverse design used on the "1885" you posted was not used in 1885. It was only used on 1921 Morgans. One year. That reverse was not in existence in 1885. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can put it. The coin you posted has a reverse which wasn't designed until 35 years after your coin was supposedly struck. Report this Post to the Staff
Mila_cent Pillar of the Community United States 1767 Posts	Posted 06/04/2007 02:15 am SeatedNut, I don't know the image is too small to really see details (bad eyesight). But from what I can see-- the "1" in the date is a little too wide? Where is the "curl" that hangs down on the left of the ear? To me the chin looks more pointed then 'rounded' or is it due to 'wear' ? I guess I will need to do a bit more studying. Thanks, mila_ Edited by Mila_cent 06/04/2007 02:16 am Report this Post to the Staff
SeatedNut Pillar of the Community United States 2797 Posts	Posted 06/04/2007 09:18 am Mila_Cent, It's definitely tough to make a call without the coin being "in-hand". Camera angles, lighting, and sometimes photoshop, make it near impossible to spot fakes. The first one in the date does look peculiar. I attributed it to wear and abuse. This one is a low-end coin in that condition, so the damage for a mistake would be minimal. Report this Post to the Staff
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Updating :authentic And Fake Silver Coins