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 Replies: 32 / Views: 5,511 |
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Valued Member
United States
291 Posts |
Have you noticed that there are some series where the ebay realized prices for the NGC coin are substantially lower than the realized prices for them same grade coin in a PCGS holder. For example, MS 65 Indian Head cents and 2 Cent pieces. Why is this? If I buy a nice looking coin in a NGC slab marked MS 65 on ebay, where admittedly I am at a disadvantage since I am not viewing it in hand, what is the likelihood that PCGS will decline to cross it at the same grade? Another question. Given the higher prices given coins in PCGS slabs, why would a dealer elect to send his coins to NGC? Does he feel the higher grade will compensate for the lack of premium granted the grading company? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1795 Posts |
Probably a matter of choice and overall cost. Not that much difference I think but not really sure of that as well.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
Its plain and simple. PCGS provides exclusivity. They purposely mark harder than NGC so that it appears that the coins they grade in a certain grade are better than coin designations of the same grade in NGC, this is evident in their yearly population reports. US coins graded by PCGS, even though they may be similar to a coin of the same designation by NGC go for much more, sometimes up to 3× as much on the market. As far dealer choice, it has always puzzled me as to why dealers choose NGC over PCGS or vice-versa. Perhaps a coin on the higher end of a grade may be better off sent to NGC where it may narrowly grade higher than if sent to PCGS. Likewise a coin at the middle end of the spectrum may be sent to PCGS and just maybe CAC-Stickered for maximum profit. All of this is speculation ofcourse. If I ever decided to slab my coins I would send all US coins to PCGS, all World coins to NGC, Canadian coins to ICCS and World Gold Coins to ANACS. Hope this helped. Edited by zxcccxz
08/26/2013 10:24 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
291 Posts |
Thanks Zxcccxz. I have one local dealer who basically insists on only slabbing with NGC. I suspect the coins would not get the same grades if he sent them to PCGS. The dealer's local business is solely, as far as I can tell, scrap bullion, but he does run the coin show circuit. He must see some benefit, or maybe PCGS burned him at some point in the past.
The largest local dealers uses PCGS, while the median sized outfit goes both ways. As I mentioned above, the small guy uses only NGC.
Edited by usc96
08/26/2013 11:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Absolutely no difference between the two companies. PCGS is considered by many to be more accurate with their grading. I disagree. I personally trust ANACS. A grade by a TPG is nothing more than an opinion, opinions are like a______s, everyone has one. TPG/PCGS graded coins are very often way off the mark in their grading for the type of coin. NEVER buy a coin because of a TPG grade. Buy a coin only if you think it is worthy. Grade=$, and in the long run the coin is what it is. I like Large Cents and I often see them graded MS64/MS65 by PCGS, many of these coins are no more than AU58/MS60. You can tell by the wear or bagmarks by studying them after a few minutes. So, what I'm saying is TPG's grades are opinions and sometimes not good ones. ....Why a dealer would send a coin to NGC as you asked is because many people who collect just want to see a grade on a slab so they can justify what they spent, and of course, for resale. NGC isn't going away and many very choice coins are in NGC slabs. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
1893S is right on target. Any attempt to explain why one is better than the other is a waste of effort. They are JUST opinions. My choice? NGC all the way. Why? I simply prefer the museum-quality presentation of their slab. Period. I trust an NGC grade the same as I trust a PCGS grade. This goes for ANACS too. The only thing ANACS needs to change, IMO, is their slab.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:Why is this? If I buy a nice looking coin in a NGC slab marked MS 65 on ebay, where admittedly I am at a disadvantage since I am not viewing it in hand, what is the likelihood that PCGS will decline to cross it at the same grade? Another question. Given the higher prices given coins in PCGS slabs, why would a dealer elect to send his coins to NGC? Does he feel the higher grade will compensate for the lack of premium granted the grading company? Today PCGS is number one in the coin grading market. PCGS certified coins are in higher demand and command higher prices than coins certified by other companies. This has not always been the case and could change in the future. The likelihood that a NGC 65 will cross to 65 at PCGS? Probably 50% or less on average. The companies use different standards with PCGS having a higher priority on eye appeal. Why use NGC? A person might like NGC's customer service, pricing, holders, etc. There are many reasons to choose NGC or ANACS and both are good solid companies. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
For a coin like the Two Cent Piece, I've found most NGC coins seem overgraded a point (in grades at MS63 and above), hence the downgrade in pricing, when compared to PCGS, not always mind you, but more often than not. Buy the coin not the slab, learn to grade, and you'll due just fine! "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
08/27/2013 03:50 am
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Valued Member
United States
477 Posts |
I must admit I like the NGC edge view holders the best, as far as holders go. I'll leave the grading judgments to the more experienced.
Rick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
I have moved from one side of the court to the other and even into the bleachers on this one. Presently, I am sticking with my PCGS slabs primarily for continuity. Eye appeal is the best indicator for me, although I have used "PCGS" in my searches for coins, I have acquired coins from all three (PCGS, NGC and ANACS). I agree that ANACS needs to change their current slab.  PCGS needs to revert back to the solid gasket and have the (fat) finger-type available if need be (edge lettered coins) or requested by the submitter. I really like the slender finger gasket of NGC. Edited by oih82w8
08/27/2013 09:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
919 Posts |
I think some of it has to do with cost. I bought 3 rolls of MS Peace dollars from a dealer. He asked if I wanted to send them in to NGC along with his Morgans. If we got to 100 same denomination coins we could get 63's for something like $6, 64's for $8 and 65's for $10. At PCGS it would be $20 per coin minimum. Maybe he was not aware that PCGS does the same deal. If they do I would be interested in that. That adds at least $14 to an MS63 coin graded by PCGS. If you check APMEX they almost always pay more for PCGS slabs and sell them for more. I tried to cross a 1945D MS67 Walking Liberty with CAC from NGC to PCGS. They would not cross it over. PCGS has very low pop numbers for the 45D. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Mainly popularity. PCGS is excessively popular. Sort of like saying Klenex, so many have heard of them. At coin shows I hear all the time "Of course it cost more, it's in a PCGS slab". Many, many people just think PCGS is the real TPGS or the only one that is good. There are many, many TPGS's besides those two but just how many have people heard of? If you Google TPGS's for coins you would find a real lot of them hardly anyone has ever heard of. PCGS is like saying Ferrari for a car. It's just a lot of popularity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
Yes, somehow the popularity of PCGS is sticking right now. Maybe this evolved as kind of like a social construct. You know, like you have to eat turkey on Thanksgiving. The construct now is that PCGS HAS TO BE the best. On another note, all TPG companies have made mistakes too. So for me, this also makes them equal. None are perfect. But I'm glad we have them, nonetheless. |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
I would just like to point out that TPG slab performance is quantitatively analyzed and recorded by CDN and the difference of the two companies is statistically insignificant. I'm not sure what some of you are talking about when citing these enormous price differences realized. I won't try to explain the methodology, but it's basically a comparison of sight unseen to sight-seen buying values for certain slabs based off existing neutral certified prices. Last month; PCGS averaged 82.07%, NGC 81.89%, ICG 66.50%, and ANACS 66.13%.....then there are basement companies that are lower. That's basically the same. In my personal experience, I may have noticed a slight (SLIGHT, about 5%) higher realization for PCGS. I don't know what where some of you are seeing these enormous price differences. I've seen same graded coins go for much higher discrepancies when one was ugly and the other was not, but I've seen NGC be the one going higher just like PCGS. I've also seen egregious grading (and spot-on grading) by both. PCGS costs more (to join and such), especially for non-ANA members so that's a negative. I think their holders look attractive enough, but independent tests have shown they are actually less secure than NGC. Just wanted to add my Two Cents. I'm not an NGC guru or anything, but I just felt that the "PCGS-love" cannot be factually substantiated. Edited by hesgut
08/27/2013 11:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
919 Posts |
I reread the posts and I don't see any saying PCGS has enormous price differences. Did I miss one? My post was referring to NGC being cheaper for large vol submissions resulting in $10-14 lower prices per coin for grading. My post was not meant to seem like an enormous difference (unless you are having over 100 coins graded, then that is over $1000 saved).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
Thanks for posting those statistics, hesgut. See, mathematics proves it! LOL!  I do believe that the security of the NGC holder is why the Smithsonian Institute has gone with NGC for encapsulation of its coins, although only certain coins get chosen for this. Edited by Darth Morgan
08/27/2013 1:05 pm
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Replies: 32 / Views: 5,511 |
Posted 08/26/2013 10:22 pm
