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1853 Large Cent - Grade? Variety?

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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2013  08:51 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I picked up an 1853 Large Cent this week and am curious about the grade. This is a newer area for me. Also, I don't believe I've seen one where the '1' is actually positioned in or at least up against the neck. Is this common? Thanks in advance...

1853-Large-Cent---Grade?-Variety?
1853-Large-Cent---Grade?-Variety?
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2013  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
can't comment on the attribution, however, I would grade this one at VF25 cleaned. it does have a couple dings that could reduce the value a little. not sure whats happening under the "3" as well as the "O" in ONE. IMO it would get a details grade. the date location is quite interesting, maybe someone can comment on that. maybe its a rarer variety
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 Posted 08/29/2013  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Panzaldi! The area near the three appears to be where something might have hit it. The 'O' is a ding as well. I'm intrigued by the date so I'm hoping someone might be able to help identify it.
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 Posted 08/29/2013  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerryc39 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
agree on the vf 20 or 25 cleaned opinion and dings affecting value. also do not have the book to id the variety unfortunately.
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 Posted 08/29/2013  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS recognizes 33 Newcomb Varieties for 1853...whew.

I would recommend reading up on the subject;

A. 1793-1814: Two books, the classic and the newcomer. Once Breen's magnum opus is published it'll be three.

1) PENNY WHIMSY, by Sheldon. Really one of the classic numismatic books of all time, on any topic. The rarity, condition census, and basal value data are largely outdated, of course, but we'll get to that later. Knowing just how rare each variety is does you no good at all if you can't tell 'em apart.

2) UNITED STATES LARGE CENTS 1793-1814, by Noyes. A wonderful attribution guide for the beginner with enlarged photographs and highlighted distinctive features of each die. The CC information is controversial, but it's certainly more accurate and up-to-date than Sheldon's.

B. 1816-1839: Three books, an oldie and two new ones.

1) UNITED STATES COPPER CENTS, 1816-1857, by Newcomb. The standard reference. For over 40 years, a handwritten (!) labor of love. Though Noyes and Wright are easier to read and use, there's still more than enough in Newcomb to make it a must-have.

2) UNITED STATES LARGE CENTS 1816-1839, by Noyes. A twin to his book on early dates, and even more of an improvement over it's predecessor as an attribution guide.

3) THE CENT BOOK, by Wright. The masterwork by the best known name in middle-dates. History, attribution, die states, some CC and pricing data. Excellent photographs. Although Noyes and Wright books do overlap, each has its strengths, and you should have them both.

C. 1840-1857: ATTRIBUTION GUIDE FOR UNITED STATES LARGE CENTS 1840-1857, by Grellman and Reiver. This book is to Newcomb what a Mercedes is to a Model T. I'm a confirmed early-date nut, and even I enjoy using G-R. It brings late- date attribution and study within the grasp of even the beginner.

http://www.eacs.org/lcctext.htm
Edited by oih82w8
08/29/2013 3:33 pm
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 Posted 08/29/2013  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks oih82w8...

I would love to do so but those books require a second mortgage be taken out on my house

With that being said, I guess I'll have to work my way into them over time...
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 Posted 08/29/2013  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
srs77, If you're into collecting LC's for the long haul then you have to buy the Grellman, Wright, and Noyes books. It will set you back a bit, BUT, the books will most likely last your lifetime and the info is very valuable and will help you to be able to pick varieties, at substantially less $$$ than their true value, THUS, paying for the books by doing so. ALSO asking others to attribute the variety of your coin is asking for trouble in the long run. You can't believe how fun and fulfilling this is, being able to attribute LC's by yourself. You're basically talking about a $500 investment to last you a LIFETIME. Maybe half a monthly mortgage payment that could pay off in the thousands instead of willy-nilly buying of LC's....Good luck!
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 Posted 08/29/2013  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
N10 and N13 have the 1 in the date as high as yours. Both are R1 (most common).
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robbudo's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2013  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On second thought ... Can I have a close up of the date on your coin?
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 Posted 08/29/2013  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
On second thought ... Can I have a close up of the date on your coin?


Here's a large shot of the obverse.

1853-Large-Cent---Grade?-Variety?
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 Posted 08/29/2013  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
is that repunching under the base of the '1'?
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downtownsf's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2013  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add downtownsf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a N-12 R.1. Although, the base of the 1 almost looks re-punched which would make it a little more interesting than your typical N-12. My eyes are probably just playing tricks on me.
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 Posted 08/29/2013  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does appear as though the 1 is repunched. Looking at it through a loupe and it appears as though it could be repunched. There is a definite line beneath the one for sure. What would this mean in terms of the rarity?
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 Posted 08/29/2013  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
not sure how I feel about this being the N12, die lumps under the ear lobe are a main feature of this variety. See http://www.gothicstamps.com/php/vie...itemid=41144
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 Posted 08/29/2013  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So, there you go srs77, would you like to be able to attribute these beautiful coins by yourself, or, do you want others to do it for you. I'm telling you, you're missing out on great fun. And, by the way, no disrespect to both robbudo or downtownsf for trying to help you as this is very nice of them to take their time.
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 Posted 08/30/2013  07:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So, there you go srs77, would you like to be able to attribute these beautiful coins by yourself, or, do you want others to do it for you. I'm telling you, you're missing out on great fun. And, by the way, no disrespect to both robbudo or downtownsf for trying to help you as this is very nice of them to take their time.


Wow, I didn't realize that I couldn't ask questions. Maybe next time you should just keep to yourself instead of invading a thread where a question was asked. Rude and condescending is how I would describe your post here.

To those that have attempted to help - I THANK YOU! I always thought this was a place where you could ask questions and learn. So if you've provided assistance (Robbudo and downtownsf) again, I thank you. For 1893s, I'd just appreciate you stay away from my threads..
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