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1885-CC Opinions Wanted

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PlatinumDuck's Avatar
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2013  3:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PlatinumDuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Please let me know what you think the grade of the following coin is. And does anyone know why it has all these hairline looking streaks/marks?

1885-CC-Opinions-Wanted

1885-CC-Opinions-Wanted
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CoinCollecter97's Avatar
United States
125 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2013  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollecter97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Georgous Morgan!
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18700 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2013  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS64 Cameo PL could even be DMPL. at first glance I thought the hairlines were on the case, a closer look, however, me thinks they might be on the coin. particularly looking at the lower part of the wreath on the reverse, they appear to have removed the luster across some of the leaves. no sure what caused them. if they are truly on the coin, I would think it would get a details grade
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westcoin's Avatar
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9793 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2013  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lines are die polish marks left over from polishing the die, as they strike coins and begin to wear (heat and friction) the dies are re-polished and this will also leave the cameo effect on freshly polished dies for the first hundred strikes or so right after, as evidenced in you coin. A close look at the surface of the coin should reveal the lines are actually raised and not scratches in the surface, the were scratched into the die, probably by a wire wheel buffer and some polishing compound, this of course will leave the opposite on the coin from the die, being a mirror image.

With this much die polishing showing the strike has been affected and the coin is not as fully struck up as normal, that or the die polishing has just been done so heavily onto this die set that it is wearing the die down, causing the details to begin to wear away. Heavily polished dies are usually a sign of the end of life for a die in the Morgan series, the Mint was cranking out as many coins as humanly possible to keep up with the Bland Allison Silver Act of 1878 requirements.

I'd grade this CC at MS64PL, I don't think there is enough cameo effect to go full DMPL but the hit on the cheek is hard to tell how large and deep it is in the photo, hence my MS64 from these photos. It is not too far off of a MS65 grade though.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2013  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think it's die polishing, since the lines carry into the depths of the devices where there would be no polishing. To me, this is a very striated planchet which mistakenly made it into production; it should have been pulled for remelting with such striations. That would (in my opinion) adversely affect the final grade, as would the extremely weak strike (heck, I wonder if this one's even at appropriate weight).

I wouldn't exceed MS64 for it, even though the detail might be technically better than that. With all that ill spoken of it, though, it's still a fascinating coin - those are as heavy a set of striations as I've ever seen on a Morgan. And no way PCGS would have slabbed it if those were postmint.
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PlatinumDuck's Avatar
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134 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2013  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PlatinumDuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the comments and information. The coin is graded by PCGS as an MS63DMPL. I can't seem to get good photos of it, but it looks very mirror/proof like in the fields in hand.
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2013  06:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that it is planchet striations seen here, although it is a bit odd to see them on the fields of a coin with PL surfaces. Typically they are limited to the surfaces of the devices when not fully struck. Not your typical strike from the CC mint from a seemingly fresh set of dies. MS63PL seems fair.
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2013  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The look like roller marks to me. This is the definition from the CCF glossary:

"Term to describe the mostly parallel incuse lines seen on some coins after striking. These were originally thought to be lines resulting from debris "scoring" the metal strips before the blanks were cut. However, new research has pointed to the final step of strip preparation, the draw bar. To reduce the strips to proper thickness, the final step was to pass them through the draw bar. It certainly seems logical that debris in the draw bar may cause these lines, if so, then draw-bar marks or lines would be a more appropriate term."

Before seeing the post revealing the grade, I was going to guess MS-64 DMPL. The surfaces look deeply mirrored , enough I think to qualify for DMPL. There are few marks and/or grazes and appears to approach 65. The strike is somewhat weak and the rollers marks are not preferable. I think the grade given is fair since there are many alternatives that are sharp and don't have roller marks.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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 Posted 09/15/2013  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS64PL.
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Moe145's Avatar
United States
8904 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2013  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a cool Morgan! I agree, this is an unusual coin!
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