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1955-P Lincoln Wheat Cent 1-DO-003 Cheap Double Die/End Of Story!

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amac44's Avatar
United States
3242 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2007  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This by no mean was meant to belittle Chuck as a person & adviser I think if you are going to take the time to post some thing about a coin on a Coin Form not be flipped, you are try to inform or enlighten the poster you would at the very lest look in up on your vast coin site

1955-P-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-1-DO-003-Cheap-Double-Die/End-Of-Story! 1955-P-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-1-DO-003-Cheap-Double-Die/End-Of-Story! 1955-P-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-1-DO-003-Cheap-Double-Die/End-Of-Story! 1955-P-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-1-DO-003-Cheap-Double-Die/End-Of-Story! 1955-P-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-1-DO-003-Cheap-Double-Die/End-Of-Story! 1955-P-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-1-DO-003-Cheap-Double-Die/End-Of-Story!

I think the picture TELL"S IT WELL End of story
sorry chuck that you got dragged in to this!
Edited by amac44
06/12/2007 8:03 pm
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tights24's Avatar
United States
2254 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2007  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tights24 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed amac. As I stated, I enjoy both of your posts. I have taken Chuck's posts with a chuckle as they are concise and to the point. In a word, blunt. He is a very busy man as are we all. His site is a great reference, and maybe a question to him directly in your post would elicit more of a response. I.E., copper, in looking at your DO-003, I can't quite tell if mine is the same as the WE is right, but the rest looks funky. Can you explain to me?

I am certainly not defending anyone, just trying to make things easier to understand, and as Gary stated, if you don't like/want the answer, don't ask the question. However, if you ask a particular question potentially directed at one of our experts, I think you will find you accept the answer.

Certainly not playing moderator here, just trying to give you my honest thoughts. I have been to a ton of training classes etc. on working/managing/dealing with other people. Take it for what it's worth....
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2007  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No problem Tpatna:

1955P-1DO-003 is a class 6, distended hub doubled die. The term "distention" refers to stretching, like taffy, of the devices toward the rim of the design on the die. This is usually caused by improper heating, or annealing of the die. The result looks like someone stretched, or "fattened" the devices - namely, on the Lincoln Cent obverse, the date, LIB of LIBERTY, and the letters in the motto, IN GOD WE TRUST.

The most obvious pick-up-point of the class 6 doubled die Lincolns is usually in two places - the 9 of the date will have a fat tail - has to do with the angle it comes down being the best angle for distention, and the LIB of LIBERTY having convex outer edges - looks like someone stretched out the tops and bottoms of the letters.

I will invite readers to examine the most obvious, and strongest class 6 doubled die obverse in the Lincoln Cent series to see just how extreme this doubling can be. It is 1943P-1DO-001:

http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds

All of the characteristics I point out above are readily obvious on this particular die. Just as a side, this die is rare, especially in BU grades. It is also listed as a top-100 die by CONECA and is in the CherryPickers' Guide.

Now...to 1955P-1DO-003. The same general characteristics are visible on this die, but are much less severe - almost to the point that the novice would have a difficult time picking it out if it weren't pointed out to them.

The particular areas of interest on this die are more in the convex shape to the outer edges of the LIB of LIBERTY and in the similar convex shape to the top of the lower horizontal bar on the E of WE. The date doesn't show the doubling very well, although when compared to a normal coin of the same date, it is visible. The images of this die on my site are for mid-die state and late die state coins. We have been lucky enough to find and photograph two of these:

http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds

http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=lds

Very briefly on the other point in this thread...read up and see that I simply stated in my post, "That coin is not an example of 1955P-1DO-003, and doesn't appear to be a doubled die at all." I cannot readily figure where any part of that statement could be misconstrued as being disrespectful. It was corrective, as are almost all of my posts here. I have said this before, and I will say it again:

I am not here to pat people on the back for finding common things they believe to be valuable. I am not here to watch people fool themselves into believing they are finding errors in every pocketful of change. If that were the case people wouldn't be able to make livings on real errors. The real errors are valuable because they are rare. I came here, and will remain here until the owners of this forum decide to tell me to leave, as an educator in what I do know. Those things I do not know about you will not find me posting about, because I reserve comment when I don't know the correct answer, as everyone should. When I do have the correct answer, I will post it, not only because I do know the correct answer, but I care enough to try educating you, correct you and let you know what it is.

Now...anyone who takes what I do here personally is probably misinformed as to why this forum is here, is likely reluctant to hear their coin is not what they thought it was, is either unable or unwilling to learn from what they read here over and over again, and most unfortunately unlikely to change their attitude and opinion, probably out of sheer stubbornness.

This forum is not just a show-off area for your latest finds, whether they be of value or not, but it is also an educational forum where people can gather and share what they know about the subject - which is exactly what I do. I am blunt, brief, and to the point because I am a very busy person and make a very meager living dispensing information and writing about numismatics. I don't have time for hand-holding through the same answers that have been given numerous times here, I have books and articles to write, coins to photograph, websites to build, and coins to put into inventory for sale. I have time to say what is - or is not - about the posts made by others and leave it at that. I have time to respond to questions directed toward me and/or directed toward the general crowd that I happen to know the answer to. Take it or leave it, nobody forces anyone here to read anyone else's posts.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2007  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hadn't seen the second page posts until after I posted above. I will reply to the second page posts here:

I have no ill feelings toward anyone here. I don't take anything out on anyone, and I am blunt. If my bluntness is offensive to anyone here, I might suggest two things...grow a thicker skin, and quit reading my posts. I don't use statements like "could be" or "might be" or "I think it may be" because those are misleading. It either IS or it IS NOT. If I cannot answer one way or the other, I don't answer. Like it or leave it, that's just how I am. I answer the questions correctly and professionally, but precisely and succinctly as well. Most people find this to be more pleasing to the eye than a lot of blather to give a round-about possible answer to a non-question. If it can be said in 15 words, I don't need 16. I am not a politician and am not running for office here.

AMAC44 - You point out that the T of CENT on your coin has a die crack. Congratulations; nearly a fourth of all reverse cent dies from 1950-1958 have a similar crack. This was the first stress point where reverse dies gave out during that period, and most dies were over used resulting in a large number of chips and cracks. You should note, however, that the crack on your coin does not match in shape to the crack in the photograph you printed off the site, and this is yet another important part of attributing die varieties. That your coin displays a crack on the reverse does not mean it is a doubled die obverse. None of the distinguishing features of the doubled die show in any of the photographs you posted, thus your coin is NOT the doubled die. End of story. Yeah, I'm blunt, and no, it has nothing to do with you.
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Tpatna's Avatar
United States
1626 Posts
 Posted 06/12/2007  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tpatna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coppercoins - Thanks for the clarification

Amac44 - Keep up the good work. It takes a steady and keen eye to find what you find.

Its nice to know we are all one happy family.....

I for one appreciate every-one's opinion and learn something new every day from this wonderful forum.

Chow -
Tim
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