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Impaired Proof? (Value & Typeset ?s)

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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  5:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
With classic US silver, a lot of (most in many cases) the unwanted business strikes were reported to be melted in 1874. Before that they were recalled or removed & melted when the weight changed in the 1850s. So for many coins before 1874, even if the mintage #s weren't tiny, the actual surviving coin population may be quite rare.

But some years there were 100s or 1000s of proof coins a much higher portion of which were saved and have survived 150 or so years. Some of them slipped into circulation and so may rarely be found quite worn. Others slide around in drawers and while proof are no longer 60+.

Q1: Is there a general consensus as to what this does to the value? Is a PF-58 totally undesirable, while a PF-60+ is much loved?

And also,

Q2: Am I fooling myself putting a PF-58 into my "circulated" typeset?



Don't worry, I'm not going to give it up, with a mintage of 4,000 and reportedly 625 proofs, it's still pretty special even if it doesn't 'fit'.

The population reports are
  • Business 41 NGC + 53 PCGS

  • Proof 264 NGC + 388 PCGS


of which only 6 (all PCGS) are PF-58 or lower

Now there is a new typeset idea - collect the worst certified version of each coin, with the sole limit that you didn't certify it yourself or have a friend do it for you...
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
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Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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kanga's Avatar
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 Posted 10/12/2013  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If they are common date, inexpensive coins then IMO anything less than PF-65 is a waste of money.
BUT as the value of a coin increases the acceptability of lower grades becomes greater.

I would have no problem including a PF-40 1856 FE into my collection; in fact I'd welcome it -- at the right price.
But since I avoid proof coins it's unlikely I will ever buy one unless the right price is REALLY right.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 10/12/2013  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Q1: Is there a general consensus as to what this does to the value? Is a PF-58 totally undesirable, while a PF-60+ is much loved?


Kind of depends on rarity to begin with, of course, but I would generalize that a circulated Proof will lose far less value than an Impaired one (damaged, cleaned). In the case of the specific Pops you mention, I suspect the loss of value would be somewhat linear, in a grade progression fitting the pattern formed by the lower-grade PF6x examples.


Quote:
Q2: Am I fooling myself putting a PF-58 into my "circulated" typeset?


Well, it is Circulated.


Quote:
Now there is a new typeset idea - collect the worst certified version of each coin, with the sole limit that you didn't certify it yourself or have a friend do it for you...


Although it isn't done with Proofs, Lowball sets are already a thing for a few issues, particularly Dollars, Morgan and later. Note my avatar.
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CoinDan98's Avatar
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 Posted 10/17/2013  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinDan98 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
why would you do a purposely lowball set?
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2013  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Because it's cheap but just as difficult as a high-grade set, especially for rarely-circulating issues.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 10/17/2013  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also because one of the typesets I'm working on represents what was in circulation at a point in time - so older coins would have been quite worn.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Vintage Proofs's Avatar
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 Posted 11/02/2013  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vintage Proofs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Impaired proofs (under PR60) from before WWI usually retain a significant amount of the PR60 value. Just as with business strike coins, a PR58 can often be more attractive than a typical PR60. A PR58 might just show some light rub and otherwise be outstanding, while a PR60 will have significant hairlines or other flaws.
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