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 Replies: 130 / Views: 12,800 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2368 Posts |
Some people on this forum are in favor of canceling the American penny. I think the negatives will outlive the short-term positives. Every day, millions of shield pennies leave the Denver and Philadelphia mint. For any penny roll hunter, this is frustrating.
Since two years ago, the amount of shields in rolls has gone from 1 to 10 percent. These new coins replace older ones like wheat pennies. However, if we were to discontinue the penny altogether to stop production, it would be far worse.
Most Canadian CRHers can relate to this when their penny was axed. Penny rolls have been scarce and banks are not ordering them. The same for half dollars in America. Within a few years, penny rolls will be hard to find, stopping the hunting altogether. Now how would we find wheats, coppers, and Indian heads? I would not support a bill that cancels the penny, and neither should you. We need to protect the last antique one cent coins in circulation!
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
Interesting summary  I agree with your sentiments it would be a sad day if they decide to scrap the penny. Putting aside "issues" to do with pennies ...there is still a lot to like about pennies  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
I'd like to think that the potential savings would outweigh the sad feelings felt by a tiny niche of hobbyists.
I'd enjoy still searching boxes of pennies in Canada, but I'd rather our government put those millions of dollars into something else that's actually productive.
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Pillar of the Community
1751 Posts |
Agree with nala, the nations financial stability is more important than a hobby.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't be ordering/stacking several thousand dollars in cents.
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Moderator
 Australia
16808 Posts |
Quote:
Every day, millions of shield pennies leave the Denver and Philadelphia mint. For any penny roll hunter, this is frustrating. So cancel the penny, and that will cease - saving the government millions. Why should the government - and through the government the 90% of the population that are not coin collectors - continue to subsidize your hobby? Quote:
Now how would we find wheats, coppers, and Indian heads? You would go down to the coin dealer and buy them at the market rate, just like the people who collect other obsolete coins like half-cents, large cents, 2 cents, 3 cents, half-dimes and 20 cents have to do. Quote:
We need to protect the last antique one cent coins in circulation! Um, why?  The fact that you can still find "antique coins" in circulation at all is an anomaly of the American financial situation. American banks are among the few in the world that are not an integral part of the nation's currency recycling system. Everywhere else in the world, if someone deposits coins at the bank, the bank checks each and every one of them and sends any old or obsolete coins they find back to the mint or other central authority for withdrawal and destruction. America is also (almost) unique in not having had a major currency reform in the past fifty years. There are only three countries in the world where you can still have even a remote possibility of receiving a silver or pre-WWII coin in change: America, Canada and Switzerland. And Canada and Switzerland both have banks and a central authority that co-operate to actively withdraw old, obsolete coins (such as silver). So in that sense, "coin roll hunting" as it is practiced in America is already on borrowed time. So enjoy it while it lasts, because it cannot last much longer. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
Japan also had same-sized silver 100-yen coins that could theoretically circulate today. Their melt value, though, barely exceeds 2x face. Great Britain was in the running until the early 90s, because (theoretically!!) a silver shilling or florin could make its way into a pile of same-sized same-face 5ps and 10ps. Mexico is also on the list, as $10 coins had .925 silver centers until 1996 - they are one of the very few bimetallic precious-metal circulation-issue coins in the world. $20 and $50 silver coins also exist, but they were not replaced by a base-metal version until fairly recently (new $20 commemoratives, one's in the mail for me :) and $50 only exist in silver) and cannot be mistaken for base-metal. This gives us... 5 countries on the list (+ Japan + Mexico). Still tiny :( But yes, when I find an old base-metal coin in a roll: "Wow, how much is this cool 1949 nickel worth?!  " "20 cents from a dealer in better condition than mine  " |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
What if the penny was discontinued? All of the United States would be better off.  EXCEPT that is, for some of us here in the CCF!  I wonder if the U.S. Mint would do a special run of varieties and errors, just for the variety and error collectors?  |
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Valued Member
United States
71 Posts |
What if the penny was discontinued?
My banks would order me many boxes of nickels instead of boxes of cents.
I might actually find a "V" nickel as I would probably go through 4 times the boxes of nickels as I do now.
I would get more of a workout as boxes of nickels are heavier than boxes of cents.
I would have to double my cent orders between the announcement of discontinuation and the final day so I could have one last huge run in the Ryedale before it became an antique.
I'm not to worried about the discontinuation of the cent. It won't happen for a long time. You can't find enough people to vote the same way in our government to change anything.
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Valued Member
United States
140 Posts |
This discussion has made me a bit sad. I have always thought we should discontinue the cent but I agree that if we do, we (coin roll hunters) will have trouble getting cents to search just like Canada. I havnt searched in about two weeks and Saps post has made me want to put it in high gear again.
I still think we should discontinue the cent but now that thought has more weight to it.
Edited by CJ Cents
10/18/2013 1:10 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
While I agree with the whole idea of governments saving money from scraping pennies , I seriously doubt it will have too impact on a countries overall finances because as long as many governments can run up large deficits there will always be government money wastage somewere in the bureaucracy - I would rather money is wasted making pennies instead of some of the stuff governments lose money on   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
979 Posts |
I CRH pennies. I'm about to open 2 boxes and throw them in my ryedale
That being said, it cost $146 million dollars to make the $60 million in pennies that we made in 2012.
Where does that money come from that we waste? Tax hikes, cutting of programs in schools, or just adding the debt that put us to the ceiling that shut our country down.
The estimated cost of the shutdown was $24 billion, if anyone was wondering.
Is it the penny that did that? The nickel? No, its the many holes in our government spending. If we can plug a hole, lets do it.
Imagine it from the opposite end. Lets say that for many years the US mint didn't make pennies. We will also say no pennies were in circulation, they were all held in banks since we stopped making them. They decide they will try and pass a bill to get the penny back in circulation. It will cost 2.41 cents of our tax paying money to make each one. This will make the banks start releasing the old pennies too.
Is it worth it? Would you want our government to lose 84 million dollars (146-60) like it did in 2012 so that we can CRH?
How about if you had to go to one of the less fortunate inner city schools and tell them that you like CRHing and explain why their teacher got laid off and they are combining classes.
$84 million dollars. How much can it REALLY do? Well, $53,014 is the average salary of a primary school teacher. Divide $84 million by $53014= 1584
$84million = 1584 teachers pay
How about if you had to go to one of the less fortunate inner city schools and tell them that you like CRHing and explain why their teacher got laid off and they are combining classes.
We laid off 33,500 teachers in 2012. We could have saved almost half of them with the money lost by the penny alone, not to mention nickel.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
Interesting points , but I would also want to add that pennies also play a huge role in the overall economy for example goods can be priced on a sale at 99c instead of $1 or $1.99 instead of $2 - that tiny amount makes the difference between some folks buying items in stores as opposed to not buying and that generates extra commerce which brings in more tax dollars hence pennies being kept is most importantly good for commerce and then as a by-product least importantly good for roll hunters While I am not too familiar with why those teachers got laid off I seriously doubt $84 million annually would have kept them in their position for too long I suspect the reasons are rooted elsewere ....if America was some 3rd world banana republic I would support scrapping the penny to save $84 million annually but even in the current climate I doubt that amount money would seriously mean too much for the US ... Edited by DaytR
10/18/2013 3:54 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17894 Posts |
If US shops showed the full price (including tax) on their price labels, there would be less need for so many pennies.
We have VAT in the UK, but price tags in stores always include tax. So if I get a few items in a British grocery store and the price comes to £2.37, I can get out £2.37 in change and pay it at the till. In the States I never know quite what the final amount will come to, so I usually get out a five-dollar bill...
Will the abolition of the penny cause problems when taxes are added?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2368 Posts |
@ Sap:
I agree that the cancellation of the penny would save the government money, however, there are better ways like spending cuts that would have a more positive effect on the economy without disrupting our monetary system. I am not going to get into politics, but there are better ways to raise revenue without scrapping the penny.
You raise a good point about the alternative of just buying the coins you want, but the point of coin roll hinting for me is the feeling of earning your collection. Also the thrill of the hunt and satisfaction of finding that sought after piece feels more rewarding than purchasing the coin.
You are right about the possibility of obsolete coins being melted down by the government, its really something to think about...
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
Quote:
Also the thrill of the hunt and satisfaction of finding that sought after piece feels more rewarding than purchasing the coin  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
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Agree with nala, the nations financial stability is more important than a hobby. Our national debt is ridiculous already, there is no way we are getting out of it. It costs 24 billion dollars for the government shutdown which also was pretty ignorant.  |
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Replies: 130 / Views: 12,800 |
Posted 10/17/2013 7:10 pm
