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Reverse Proof Franklin Half Dollar

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 1,731Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
Chancellor Sutler's Avatar
United States
1372 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  9:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Mods ... Please try to refrain from moving this to "modern coins". I think what I propose doing here could be done with classics too, and I'm guessing this crowd to be larger.

Got to thinking about how niche collectors open themselves up to all manner of fraud with quirky little things like lowball clad coins ... A vibratory tumbler, used for cleaning spent cartridges could be used to wear a clad coin. I believe it could be done in a way that would not be detected. But that issue aside ...

The next little market niche that is really asking to be taken advantage of...is the "deep cameo" proof crowd.

To prove my point ... I am going to create a "reverse proof" Franklin half dollar. Now, there's a rare coin. So rare that it only exists in my imagination.....for the moment. It would be no more difficult to apply the cameo effect to a normal proof issue Franklin half....or any other issue for that matter.

Here's the trick .... Though it may indeed prove to be, I don't intend for this thread to be a bone of contention, nor is this going to be a tutorial. I'm not going to teach you how it's done ... I just intend to show that it can be done. ANYTHING can be done. Well, at this stage of the game, I THINK this can be done. It may be beyond my capability given declining vision issues.

Will some want to shoot the messenger? ... Without a doubt. But what's a little bloodshed between friends. Let's have some fun and make a "rare" coin. I have the only one right now, snugly tucked between my ears. I know a prestidigitator ... maybe he can pull it out of my ear.

Chance
Edited by Chancellor Sutler
11/11/2013 10:45 pm
Pillar of the Community
Hondo's Avatar
United States
1211 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you saying that a brilliant proof Franklin can be turned into a cameo proof?


Pillar of the Community
Chancellor Sutler's Avatar
United States
1372 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No doubt in my mind.

I chose to do the reverse to more succinctly prove the point because no such coin exists. A deep cameo exists ... so making a "normal" Dcan proof wouldn't necessarily prove anything to anybody without the tutorial ... which I vow not to produce.

Chance
Pillar of the Community
FadeToBlack's Avatar
1751 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FadeToBlack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I take offense to you saying that there is no way my AG03 Ike is real. They don't have to circulate. I've got one I've been carrying as a pocket piece for 4 years now. When I started carrying it, It was probably XF45-AU50. Today? I'd call it a 25-30, and that may be a touch generous. That, a Morgan ('21), a '92 Columbian, and a Stone Mountain are my every day pocket pieces. CuNi coins do wear, it just takes longer, much longer, than their silver counterparts. In the four years I've had my Ike with me, I've swapped out one Morgan, one Peace, a 40% Kennedy, and a Franklin.

I'd appreciate it if you would edit your post and remove your accusations of me committing what essentially constitutes fraud. I, and anybody else who carries a pocket piece, should take it as a personal insult to the labor we put into creating these pieces. Just because you fancy yourself as an amateur coin doctor doesn't mean that others here engage in such pathetic practices and would manipulate coins in such a manner, regardless of whatever potential profits are to be had. I carry pocket pieces as a homage to my grandfather, who carried three silver dollars with him every day for 25 years. They were buried with him, so smooth that you couldn't even tell what they were. He also carried an Ike dollar for the last 15 years of his life ('71-'86). I know of no images of it, my grandmother told me that you could still see the year on it, but it was quite well worn.

As someone who has owned and collects lowball Ikes, I find your arrogance astounding, considering you've probably never even carried a couple Ikes around for even a month just to see what happens.


PS; Coins thrown into rock tumblers exhibit a certain tell that I won't get into details about, but I can spot them with a fair amount of ease, and so can any other legit lowball collector who knows what they're looking for.
Edited by FadeToBlack
11/11/2013 10:07 pm
Pillar of the Community
Chancellor Sutler's Avatar
United States
1372 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I knew it wouldn't take long for the gunfire to begin.

I apologize for making you think that I was accusing you of any kind of fraud. That wasn't at all the point. But...without the "lead in" to why I was thinking what I was thinking, then I think some of the message gets lost.

The message is "be careful" ... that's all.

Chance

Pillar of the Community
FadeToBlack's Avatar
1751 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FadeToBlack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You said collectors open themselves up to fraud, then specifically pointed out an AG03 Ike... which I just posted today. That's not a coincidence and while your point may not have been to accuse me of fraud, that certainly is the end result.

I challenge you to carry a few ikes in your pocket for a few years and see what happens. I'll even send you a pair of nice VF pieces to prove my point, free of charge.
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I am not a fan of the tone of that post either. Considering I have two Ikes in my pocket right now that will eventually be lowballs (fines right now) I am not sure. How you can justify saying low grade Ikes are automatically doctored coins. Quite the ignorant stance IMO.

Second, and to be quite honest, what is the point in hou doing this? So, you can alter a coin to make it look DCAM. Biscuits to you, but I am totally lost as to the point of doing so. Especially considering any collector of decent skill would be able to tell a coin altered in this manner.

Gotta say, not liking any aspect of this one.
Pillar of the Community
muddler's Avatar
United States
7184 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will not argue issues of worn coins or fantasy coins but I do like a cameo proof Franklin.

Reverse-Proof-Franklin-Half-Dollar
Pillar of the Community
amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nothing you said offends me in any way. Nor could I care less what you do with your coins. Just wondering why the sudden (?) interest in proving you can tone or doctor coins? As already stated any collector worth his/her salt would be able to detect them. Guess I just do not see the point.....
Pillar of the Community
Chancellor Sutler's Avatar
United States
1372 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me see what I can do .... to make that seem less accusatory Fade. It really wasn't my intention...whereas your barbs were intended to hurt ... but I'll not ask you to remove them for one reason. It illustrates your passion for the hobby. I could make that "a fight" ... but its just too trivial a thing to fight about.

I remember back in the 70s I believe, when CoinAge or CoinWorld (I forget which) did an article, an expose' of sorts ... that instructed people to stack a bunch of pennies and smack the stack with a hammer to imprint the reverse on the obverse, or vice versa. While it wasn't their intent, that article resulted in a lot of fake "error" coins being out there. I'm sure that wasn't what they intended.

Chance
Edited by Chancellor Sutler
11/11/2013 10:47 pm
Pillar of the Community
Hondo's Avatar
United States
1211 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sweet cameo proof Ben, muddler!
I'm going to go ahead and walk away from this pointless thread... Maybe I will go take some updated pictures of my cameo proof bens!
While I'm at it, maybe I will do the same with my circulated commemoratives.

Chancellor sutler, you are welcome to check out my updated threads lol.
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I just intend to show that it can be done. ANYTHING can be done.


Theoretically anything can be done it doesn't mean itll happen.

Im sure you can get close to the look you want, it doesn't mean it wouldnt get a details grade though
Pillar of the Community
smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2013  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure how that explains your post in the least bit.

And having followed the lowball submission thread, I myself thought "why is he calling out fadeto black like this". So yeah, he has every right to question you on those statements.
Pillar of the Community
Chancellor Sutler's Avatar
United States
1372 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2013  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've already apologized for that. No need in beating the dead horse. My apology is sincere ... but it "is" that thread that got me thinking that, "here's another area that people will try to exploit".

More later...when you guys cool down a bit.

Chance
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2013  02:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's no need for more. Scammers have been creating DCAM Proofs for years. I know how to do it. A *lot* of people know how to do it. And yes, I could do it to an AG-3 coin. This isn't new knowledge.

And I'm having the last word in this thread.
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