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1921-D Morgan Dollar

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Valued Member

United States
161 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2013  12:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add shaban to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is my first time checking for VAMs, I believe this is a
VAM-1B1. What do you all think?
1921-D-Morgan-Dollar
1921-D-Morgan-Dollar
1921-D-Morgan-Dollar
1921-D-Morgan-Dollar
1921-D-Morgan-Dollar
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2013  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a nice looking coin! Great Photos. I would say it is. The cracks all match up. I don't see the capped R so it must be one of the early stages. Nice find!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2013  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EDS 1B1; you can see the cap beginning to form in the last image. Given the extensive cracking, it's really surprising just how many of these they managed to knock out. People are doing die-state progressions of this VAM.
Valued Member
United States
161 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2013  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shaban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks 7TF, surprisingly took these pictures with my phone!

Thanks SD, this is my first VAM, so I'm not surprised it's common lol.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2013  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not uncommon, but very popular as as such rather more liquid than other "common" VAMs. It's a pretty good start.
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2013  01:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It almost appears to have a large radial crack on the reverse. Is that just the lighting? I notice something similar on the other VAM listed on the page but It is interesting. It also appears to have been struck through heavy grease on the obverse. Very Nice Coin!
Valued Member
United States
161 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2013  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shaban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, I didn't see what you said on the obverse though, but do you know a possible value for this coin? I put it for $60 in my shop
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2013  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$60 sounds about right. You notice how all of the stars on the obverse look squished? That is because of the grease between the obv die and the coin itself. It caused them to be very weakly struck. IS there an extra Die Break on the obv viewer left stars? On the page it shows the crack disappears about half way down. Yours appears to go into the stars and create a nice sized break. It could also just be a scrape.
Valued Member
United States
161 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2013  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shaban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately that's just a scrape on the coin
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2013  05:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In truth, I think $60 is a bit high for this one, but it leaves you room for negotiation.

The more I look, the more I see going on with this coin. I've seen plenty of these, and it's not the first I've found with weak stars. That doesn't argue against 7TF's reasoning, but I almost wonder if they backed the pressure off a bit in the interest of prolonging die life. By the same token, I've seen LDS coins with strong strikes.

There seems to have been a *lot* of grease in the area for this coin. Have a look at the right side of the wreath - the degree of wear noted there is all out of proportion to the rest of the reverse. I expect the bottom leaf sets - adjacent to the bow - to wear quickly, but by the time the sets from AR up counterclockwise start showing wear or strike weakness, the eagle details should be far weaker than they are. So, I'm suspecting some of that grease found its' way into the reverse die as well.

What's more, I see evidence of the dies sinking a bit at the periphery, both obverse and reverse. This is most noticeable at the top of the obverse, and the left of the reverse, in these images. It's part of why I'm musing about the strike pressure.
Valued Member
United States
161 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2013  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shaban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll try taking better pictures for you to investigate, I don't know much about Morgan's to question anything you're saying
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2013  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've made 1921 Morgans a personal mission.

Keep in mind, though, 1921's were a whole new level of effort for the Mints. They were produced in unprecedented numbers for Dollar-sized coins, dies were pushed to the limit, and all sorts of things which would be really neat features on earlier Morgans are almost "customary" on 1921's. That, and their immense survival rate by comparison to previous issues, means value-added features are far less common for 1921's.
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United States
161 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2013  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shaban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alright Dave, I took a bunch of pictures so I just made an album instead of posting them all here. Here you go: http://imgur.com/a/YxwYu
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2013  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm seeing much the same effects in the larger group. Definitely convinced that grease played a role in some of the reverse "wear." The "die sinking" I mentioned (that's only a theory, not proven) is something I've noted, more or less, on all 5 examples of this VAM which have passed under my camera (including a 1B2) but they've varied in strength. The most pronounced of my small sample was the sole EDS I had - very much like yours - and it makes for an odd chain of reasoning.

However, a die which was so poorly annealed as to sink, might also be expected to crack early and often, as this one did.
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743 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2013  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It very well could just be a lack of pressure causing the weak stars. I am still learning and I have heard of this effect before but just forgot about it.

I was going to say $60 was high but it is just to hard to tell what grade this coin is actually in. I would estimate an AU-58 and maybe a MS-60 but the scrapes on the obv. might hold it back to an AU-50. No matter what it is in the ballpark of $50-$100 coin. It is not worth grading but if it was a grade or 2 higher it would be. This one sold for $60 and is not as nice looking as the OP coin. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-D-Morg...em20d7b55bb9
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2013  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely a cool VAM. I would say it's AU something based on all the chatter in the fields.
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