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France 2 Francs 1887 - Counterfeit?

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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  2:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I found this coin in a junk bin for $2, but some things seem off about it...
France-2-Francs-1887---Counterfeit?
1. Colour seems too dark and it fails the tissue test.
2. Ring test... no ring at all.
3. The surface is porous, maybe cast.
4. Almost no evidence of denticles on the rim at all, although this type may just have very weak reeding normally.

I can't weigh it right now, but it seems too crappy to be a modern fake, so could it be a contemporary counterfeit?
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nalaberong- yeah, sorry, but that is certainly a fake. Honestly, it could be contemporary, but the porousness and mushiness of detail makes me think modern.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have bought this coin out of a junk bin for $2, simply because it is interesting, AND on my own assumption that it IS a fake.
I have an extensive collection of fake coins from ancient to modern, for my own education.

Modern or contemporary, counterfeit or fake: it all boils down to the same thing: it ain't genuine. In my opinion, it is a contemporary counterfeit.

Some non genuine coins can have some significant value, such as ancient contemporary counterfeits, or the Becker fakes.
Edited by sel_69l
12/08/2013 3:55 pm
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it is my first fake of any kind (I hope!! ) and I was expecting it to be dodgy when I saw it.

It looks cast (it is a bit grainy and porous), and since it is very poor quality (shoddy execution, poor details) I think it's more likely to be a contemporary counterfeit. However, I'd be interested to know what metal it could be, because if it's lead I should probably stop touching it.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lots of contemporary counterfeits of the 19th century had lead in them.
Don't worry about handling it with your fingers. Just put it in a cardboard 2x2, and label it like any other coin. Lead although poisonous, ain't THAT bad!
To be honest, ALL of the coins we handle are made from heavy metal poisons, and I can't see anybody 'kicking the bucket' from handling copper and bronze coins or copper nickel coins for all of their life,
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nalaberong --- Hello and welcome to the world of counterfeit ownership.

The coin looks like a typical cast copy from the last decade of the 19th century or the early decades of the 20th century - made during one of the many monetary crises to circulate. The bright dots in the metal are usually zinc blooms that crystalize quicker than the rest of the mixture.

Casts of this nature are extremely common as a generic type but assembling a complete set from any country or series is a daunting task. There is no large pool of examples to draw from.

I understand about your concerns about lead but don't worry. I have handled counterfeits for over 50 years and as of last year I passed a toxic screening used to detect exposure to hazardous metals. You do need to be aware that arsenic, antimony (nearly as poisonous) and high levels of mercury are typically found in the alloys of that period. But you are safe as long as you wash your hands.

The $2 price is fine - but until you know the alloy I would suggest that you keep the coin in a holder and only handle it with gloves. The precautions are reasonable and should be used with all coins in any event.

The fear of being poisoned by a counterfeit coin is NOT REASONABLE - unless you store your coins in your mouth.

sel_69l --- I agree with you that all forgeries and counterfeits are NOT GENUINE - but:


Quote:
They should never be lumped together into one big group. Numismatic forgeries are in a completely different category than Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits.


As coin collectors we need to get used to making that distinction. Forgeries are nearly worthless and are made to defraud collectors - they are a current threat. Counterfeits that were originally made to circulate and are not a threat. They just need to be properly described.

The key difference in my opinion is:


Quote:
All of the Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits that will ever be made have already been made.


That applies to all coin series that are legal to own and collect. These are the coins of the past that are not today monetary in nature.

That is precisely why they are of historic interest and are valuable. They are as rare as or more rare than the genuine examples.

To your list of very valuable counterfeits I would add:

The Birmingham forgeries of the Portrait 8Rs and
all of the counterfeit varieties in Riddell's book. In this regard every collector of counterfeits will have his own favorites.
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zxcccxz's Avatar
Canada
5417 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zxcccxz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have to say it's a fake but for $2 does it really matter? I mean if it is a contemporary counterfeit then there is much more value in it and if it isn't then it's still an interesting piece.
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United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2013  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Faux d'epoque"... Quite a few out there of the Ceres-type 2 Francs. Even attributed correctly, they can be had fairly cheaply (often $5-10).
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