Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsSpecializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Mexico War For Ind. 1812 Sud, Oaxaca 8 Reales Cast Silver

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 4 / Views: 3,373Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2013  6:59 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
See here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mexico-War-...ht_314wt_946

I talked to Max Leech recently of the Mexican Coin Company concerning these issues. He informed me normally you WANT TO SEE a hand engeaved edge or slash marks at an angle 360* degrees all around. Plain edge piece have the potential to be fakes. This E-Bay piece was a plain edge as confirmed by the seller.

I own one with these hash diagnol marks all arounds and it did exhibit good Ag ~90%, good Pt & Au (0.1-1%) and copper and lead <5%. The piece is in the vault so I do not have the exact figures.

My question is do these pieces come real with plain edges? What's your opinion from experience, references or here-say?

John Lorenzo
United States
Edited by colonialjohn
12/08/2013 7:04 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
685 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Westwood Arms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My reference for these is Guttag and there is no mention of the edge. Looks kind of like #2865 Morelos Fourth die Silver. The softness of the devices and gross denticals make me nervous.
Valued Member
Germany
194 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2013  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dosmundos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the accepted telltale signs for the forgeries is indeed the plain edge. Of course, there is always the possibility that one or the other original might have slipped through the "edge reeding procedure" back in Morelos' coining operations camp, but I would not touch any coin with a plain edge.

The problem is that apparently the forgers have caught on to this as well, as I have received reports of forgeries with hand reeded edges lately. Some of these coins could be identified as modern fakes due to their telltale signs of certain small design features (excess metal, etc.) that tell that they were made from the same mold of a forger.

My own example, which I am sure is a modern forgery although I bought it through Ponterio, shows very slight attempts at reeding as well. It looks exactly like the one pictured in the Krause-Mishler catalog, right down to the denticles, which made me think :-)

But then, there are even known modern modern fantasies of this series listed as good coins in K-M, so why should I wonder?

Pillar of the Community
colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2013  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me be CLEARER - Max said a hand made diagonal (hand made reeded) type slash marks all around the coin. I did analyze the coin and it had good Ag (~90%),Pt & Au (0.1-1.0%)levels like the 8 Reales of the period. There is always the remelting issue. I did not buy this coin from the Mexican Coin Company - but this was just an open question to MCC. Some of these of course look like terrible fakes - this would make a good research project - but for now hand made cut edges are fine in my book based on Max's (MCC) - OK ... I think <BG>? That E-Bay piece was PLAIN EDGE.
Edited by colonialjohn
12/11/2013 11:42 am
Valued Member
Germany
194 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dosmundos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silver coins of the Insurgents were deliberately made of base silver to get more coins out of a certain amount of silver. Remember that most of the Morelos coinage was fiat money made of copper.
However, it is unknown if this applies to ALL Morelos silver coinage. It is definitely true for the cast copies of Colonial 8 reales which were then counterstamped (the Insurgents' production, not the ones from Chihuahua or Monclova), but not much is known about the cast coins of the typical Morelos style.

A closer study is of course more than warranted. However, it will be difficult to definitely establish a difference between originals (crudely cast, most likely underweight and/or of base silver, hand reeded edges) from modern ones (crudely cast, most likely underweight and/or of base silver, hand reeded edges) - unless there is no edge reeding or the readings speak of "modern" alloys...


  Previous TopicReplies: 4 / Views: 3,373Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.25 seconds to rattle this change. Forums