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 Replies: 12 / Views: 2,158 |
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New Member
United States
4 Posts |
I see a lot of the 1920 dates of Buffalo nickels with grades from PCGS of XF 40 and XF 45 without a full horn. I've even saw a 1920-D AU58 from NGC with a full horn. Has the grading standard been changing? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I'm going to hypothesize here, since Buffs are not what I'd call a personal specialty. However, I know that strike quality varies wildly in that series, and perhaps 1920 (which Mint?) is known for weaker strikes. Another consideration is that even though the horn isn't the highest point of the design, improper die preparation (did they basin Buff dies?) can have the effect of weakening lower portions of a given design.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
As dave said, it is recognized that the buffalo is notorious for weak strikes throughout the years. Perhaps the rest of the coin justifies the grade and they are not grading on just the horn.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
Buffalo nickels, are, IMHO, a rather unique series. By date & mintmark, there are many series within this series - such as noted by others above.
One of the series, that I seriously struggle to grade with any consistency.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
Grading Buffalo nickels is NOT a purely technical exercise. As others have mentioned average strength of strike for each date/mm is taken into consideration. I'm in the process of learning the characteristics of each date/mm. I bought two guides (Lange's and Flynn's) to the Buffalo nickel set and have started going coin-by-coin through my set. It ain't easy. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
One of the series, that I seriously struggle to grade with any consistency.
You ain't the only one, buddy.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
Another problem for the Buffaloes was the mints often let the dies run way too long, much like the Philly mint did with Morgan dollars. Die cracks, granularity, greasy kinda look on many. Edited by DoubleEagle20
12/12/2013 9:36 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Try to remember that one item on any coin does not justify a grade. The full horn on that nickel is only one item for many people and not so important to others. Many people go by the lines on the Buffalo's hump too. Another important thing about that Nickel is it is not a Buffalo nickel, it is an Indian Head Nickel. Many graders go by the numerous line work in the Indian's feathers and hair for a grade as well as the Buffalo's details. And that famous date that gets wiped out so fast too is an important detail. You could have a full horned Buffalo and an almost gone date so now what? Many people say there are more details on the Indian's head than on the Buffalo. This one coin is one of those rare coins of ours that has sort of two names. Most lately call it the Buffalo nickel yet again, it is in reality an Indian Head Nickel. The Buffalo is really the reverse. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1291 Posts |
 If the horn was the overriding factor in grading this series, then I have seen some mint state 1926-Ds that should only get a grade of FINE! Each year and each mint within the year has its own story to tell. Sometimes there are multiple stories. That said, my initial reaction is that I would not buy any 1920 at XF prices if it didn't have a full horn, as my experience says that there are an adequate number of XF pieces with full horns to be had. Do you have a link or links to those horn-less XFs you mentioned that you can share with us? |
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New Member
 United States
4 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
Yeah, that one is absolutely horrible. I like how the seller says "well struck for the date" and is charging well over high retail for that disaster. I will say, that while this may be the worst strike I've ever seen, it may actually be an AU. The thing is, I'm not sure how it made it into a problem free slab, especially at PCGS who are the most strict at that. It's obviously spotted and not just some minor carbon, I'm pretty sure I see some green. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1291 Posts |
Ugh! Yeah, I wouldn't hit a dog in the butt with that coin. Full horn examples are available if you look hard enough. I recently restored and sold a full horn 1920-D on ebay. I mention that only because had it not had a full horn in the first place I could not have achieved a full horn on the restoration. Keep looking! Edited by weerdsteev
12/28/2013 9:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
It's all about the strike and knowing the year/mint in this series. I once had a super nice AU53 1923-S NGC that I was able to get almost MS62 money just because the strike was so full. The dealer I sold it too was excited to get it, and told me he had one graded MS64 with more luster but it still wasn't stuck as well as my AU53 coin. I learned quite a bit from picking his brain that day on Buffalo nickels. I had not realized just how many years are super tough in the series to find full strikes on. Like Jeffersons with full steps and Franklins with FBL some common dates can bring crazy money for certain attributes of strike. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,158 |
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Posted 12/11/2013 12:09 am
