Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsRoyal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1860 3CS (This One Is Tricky!) - It's A Fake!

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 1,175Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  8:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
1860-3CS-This-One-Is-Tricky!---It's-A-Fake! 1860-3CS-This-One-Is-Tricky!---It's-A-Fake!
Edited by Prethen
06/29/2007 09:45 am
Moderator
Learn More...
GO's Avatar
United States
6563 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Because there is so much wear on the rim I'd say VG8-10

But it's still better then mine
Rest in Peace
Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What makes this one tricky to me is the outline of the star is much bolder than what would be consistent with the shield wear. The outer star lines are almost all there, but the shields vertical lines are very flat. All of the major details are visible in the C on the reverse. That being said I think this coin may squeeze out a F12. This is really tough to grade because the wear is so inconsistent!

Mike
Valued Member
United States
459 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Benji to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like the heavy clash marks on the obverse...both sides of the star/shield and to the right side, next to the blemish, of the date I can faintly make out an N from UNITED. Possibly struck 2 coins at once. Obverse stamped this coin while being struck with reverse die perhaps?...If that make sense?
Pillar of the Community
Ken_3567's Avatar
United States
651 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ken_3567 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The strikes on these were notorious for uneven and weak strikes so I'm not shocked with the rims. I'm probably on the outside with this one but I'd say VF20
Pillar of the Community
Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You guys will love to find out what makes this one so tricky! It's my latest prized posession and from what I understand...fairly rare.
Rest in Peace
Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These coins were so thin that clash marks are the order of the day. I've seen many with very distinct strike-throughs. As far as the weak rims and letter wear, they are not good indicators of wear as ken3567 has already mentioned. In fact, I agree with ken3567 that this could even hit VF20 because of strike issues. Mike
Pillar of the Community
halfabustisbetter's Avatar
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My instincts in looking at the date and the raised dots on the coin along with the color (it could be the scan) were to ask more questions about it before even hazarding a guess at a grade. I haven't seen too many of these, but I don't recall the star going that far into legend.
Pillar of the Community
Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
.....getting warmer!
Pillar of the Community
Ken_3567's Avatar
United States
651 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ken_3567 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK I give, other than the main devices closer to the rim and the odd shape 6 & 0 in the date I have no clue. Prethen ya gotta tell us. I'm in suspense.
Moderator
Learn More...
SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No way that's real. There's too much wrong with the strike - off-center, no collar, etc. The lettering is too close to the star. The detailing inside the C is too crude, as is the date. The ridges between the shield and star on the obverse are far too thick.

Is it even silver?
Rest in Peace
Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why in heavens name would anyone produce a counterfeit coin of such small value and without any real numismatic value? If it is fake someone wasted a lot of time doing it. I agree that the coin looks weird, but I do not recall reading about any mass counterfeiting going on with this series/date. Also, the Star does sometimes extend into the lettering on issues with three and even two lines(see photograde) on the stars. And as already noted strike quality was often weak making the dates and outlines on the star look mushy and distorted. Perhaps the real value is that it is fake! Mike

P.S. I edited my post to add the photograde stats. This coin is now officially driving me crazy!!!!Mike
Rest in Peace
Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2007  02:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Peanut gallery here. That's a coin, right?
Pillar of the Community
hunter20ga's Avatar
United States
1173 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2007  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hunter20ga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While a 3CS is small potatoes today, there was a lot of hoarding of coins of all sorts during the civil war. That could explain why counterfeiters would have taken the time and effort to produce fake 3CS's. There's much about the appearance of this coin to raise suspicions.
Rest in Peace
Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2007  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hunter20ga, you make a very good point. I have read many articles about coin hoarding during the Civil War that virtually depleted circulating silver and gold coins. Since this coin was posted, I've been digging through a bunch of my reference books looking at photo's of 3CS's and I think you and several other posters are correct in that something about this coin looks suspicious. Alright Prethen, I give up!!! Mike
Pillar of the Community
Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2007  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought this from a dealer that graded this VF+ which I see is pretty much right on. During the Civil War, some unknown number of 3CS (dated 1860 and 1861), maybe in the hundreds were created to pass off in circulation. The cool thing about this piece is that it is a contemporary counterfeit! It was produced to make money off of the difference between it's 3-cent face value and the cost of producing it, probably about 1 cent or so.

I talked to J.P. Martin about this coin. He considers it rare compared to regular coinage. It's unknown how many survive but there probably is not a whole lot out there. I paid much more for this coin than I did a real one of equivalent grade!

You guys are smart! The dies were hand cut, hence giving the piece a really crude look. But, it could easily pass into circulation looking like this. I love this piece and it's now one of my centerpieces of my collection now.
  Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 1,175Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.43 seconds to rattle this change. Forums