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 Replies: 25 / Views: 4,300 |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
It just occurred to me the girl scouts could have bought the necessary coins and made money if they wanted too.
From the numbers in the article they needed 23,269 proofs and 8,273 young collectors to sell to get the surcharge. I am not including the 10 dollar surcharge in the math for those since it would just go right back to the scouts anyway. This is also assuming no one else bought any of them which we know isn't true but dont know how many were purchased yet.
With 123,817 coins already sold that would have been 1,238,170 dollars from the surcharge they would have gotten. Removing the surcharge from the prices it would have cost them about 1,485,735 to buy the remaining lot assuming no bulk purchase discount. They then could have just taken the silver coins and sold it for about 19 dollars to a melter and gotten back 599,298 of the 1,485,735 leaving them with a total expense of about 886,437. Subtract that from the 1,238,170 they left on the table and they would have ended up with about 351,733 in surcharge profit if they wanted put up the money to buy enough to make sure the mint costs were covered.
Given that some others definitely sold it seems they could have worked out something with the mint to purchase what was necessary so that they covered their costs and the scouts got their money. It would have been a win win for all since the mint wouldnt have to pay to melt those coins or put losses in their books and the with a little effort the scouts would have been rewarded with a nice check.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
12286 Posts |
Quote:
But the sponsor, the CFA and the CCAC are still only advisors It's true that the CFA and CCAC serve in an advisory role, and it's true that their recommendations are not always followed (but many times they are). It should be noted, however, that their recommendations for particular designs from the pool of those proposed are most often accepted. In the case of the Civil Rights coin, as stated, the recommendations offered were not incorporated into the coin's final design. Based on the suggestions offered, however, I don't believe they would have dramatically improved the coin if they were to have been incorporated. I agree completely that the GS coin's lackluster design played a large role in its poor sales. Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5208 Posts |
It seems that the modern commemorative coin market has turned into the stock market / futures market.
That is the only reason I bought a Girl Scout Silver Dollar.
I hedged my bet that the GS would sell less than the 5 star general and always bet on UNC given the historical sales records.
I almost jumped on an UNC Star Spangled Banner gold last year before the sellout but $600+ was too much at the time to gamble with and the gold issues always seem to be low mintage with little demand most likely due tot he price of gold pricing them out of most people budget.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
I was speaking to a friend of mine from high school and they were telling me that over the pass few years there has been strife between the grassroots in scouting the central group. This all seem to have started back in 2007 when the reduced the number of councils from over to 300 to just over 100. They told me that camps are closing and over 1/2 of their revenue now goes to cental admin group.
I don't know how much of this is true, since in the UK but I can't help thinking if folks are not happy with the Girl Scouts then the would not be buying the coin.
Ken
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
Ken - I read several articles last year about the strife in the GS organization. The declining membership, the sales of the camps, and huge pension liabilities... not well run right now.
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Valued Member
United States
317 Posts |
What really irritated me about the Girl Scouts not getting the surcharges from last year's offering is the recent news of the US Mint's net income of over 95 Million dollars in 2013.
Out of 95 they couldn't afford to give the Girl Scouts $500k-1 million?
That law about the surcharges and covering the cost of production is nonsense. I could understand it if the Mint was in trouble and couldn't afford to give organizations money but the Mint looks like its rolling in money.
I buy commemorative coins with the intention of giving the surcharge to the organization; if the mint can't do that I'd like my surcharge back because the mint clearly doesn't need it.
The whole situation stinks, the girl scouts didn't get their money and I feel like the mint pulled a fast one on me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
899 Posts |
Penny... I think that is kind of off the mark myself. The mint is only responsible for producing the coins for the GSA organization to promote and sell.
The profits the mint made had nothing to do with this coin - if the mint lost money producing and selling it - then why should they also take a loss elsewhere to cover the surcharge fee? The answer is they shouldn't - they would have to charge more on other offerings to cover that expense. How is that fair to the buyers who didn't want or buy this coin - that they should pay more for the products they do want so the mint can give it to the GSA.
I am not a fan of the surcharge fees anyway. I think many of these offerings are hampered by the surcharge - since that alone puts them at a substantial premium - above the already higher price the mint demands for them. But if the mint is being directed to produce coins by law - and the coins are not popular enough to warrant the surcharge to be paid out - I certainly don't think it is right to also expect the mint to take a loss as well - after all that.
This is on the sponsoring organization. They convinced congress that this was a valid product to be made and sold and they stood to gain a significant windfall once they had done so. They were advised early on that the sales were falling short, and yet I read elsewhere that many with children in the GS never even knew this coin was being sold. The poorly chosen design did little to entice the average collector, and the lack of advertising within the GSA organization didn't draw the buyers from that source either.
In other words... the GSA doesn't deserve to gain from this simply because they managed to get the coins produced - they also had the onus to market them and they failed. That is exactly how it should be done.
Edited by Doug58s
01/26/2014 05:54 am
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
12286 Posts |
Have to agree with Doug58s on this one. While it is unfortunate that the Girl Scouts organization did not receive any of the hoped for surcharges from sales of its coin, it is not the Mint's responsibility to make up for their poor support of the coin. The Girl Scouts had more than a year to promote their coin among their membership and other supporters, it is clear that they didn't do all that they could have to ensure a successful program. The Mint did the heavy lifting on the promotion of this coin, they shouldn't have to take a financial hit on top of it.
In the past, there were a number of commemorative programs that the Mint lost money on but still had to pay millions of surcharge dollars to the sponsoring organization. It was a "no lose" proposition for the sponsor. So, I can't accept the "nonsense" comment about the Mint needing to cover its costs. I am glad that Congress stepped in and changed the rules on this issue. If a sponsoring organization can't muster enough support for its coins to ensure they collect the surcharge funds, then I don't believe it should benefit at the expense (ultimately) of the US taxpayer.
For the record, I purchased one of the Uncirculated coins and one of the Young Collector sets of the GSA issue. I supported the issue with my wallet.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Valued Member
United States
317 Posts |
wow 30k extra coins, they were over by 30K coins lol. This wasn't a few thousand coins but 30,000 coins off the mark.
Can someone tell me who ordered the nearly extra 30000 Girl Scout Coins into production?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
613 Posts |
Agree with Doug.
Also purchased an unc, proof, and a young collectors. Couldn't look my GS in the face if I didn't get this issue, when I got the BS one (not that her brother, the BS would care!)
I also think there would have been some merit to the idea of the GS national organization snapping up enough coins at the end to qualify for the surcharge and do the melt thing or make a concerted push within the organization to sell them to the membership. That would have taken a little creative thinking, some leadership, some entrepreneurship, and some guts.
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Replies: 25 / Views: 4,300 |
First Page
Posted 01/08/2014 9:15 pm
