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Bottom Feeding: Marius (Kind Of)

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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  02:14 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Saw this coin on ebay and originally thought it was Aureolus (QVIT in the reverse legend) but then saw it was Victorinus. But Victorinus is quite distinct and this bust didnt look like him and sure enough, Wildwinds lists this as Victorinus with Bust of Marius. Got it cheap.

Bottom-Feeding:-Marius-Kind-Of
Bottom-Feeding:-Marius-Kind-Of
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  03:06 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cool! Looks like you have some BD to cure.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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United States
3444 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  06:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While the hundreds of hours never really justify the efforts it is thrilling when we find the gold nugget ! I think I am inspired for the next 'Smackdown'.

Beethovens Ninth ...... the "Ode to Joy"

"Freude trinken alle Wesen
An den Brüsten der Natur;
Alle Guten, alle Bösen
Folgen ihrer Rosenspur.
Küsse gab sie uns und Reben,
Einen Freund, geprüft I'm Tod;
Wollust ward dem Wurm gegeben,
Und der Cherub steht vor Gott."

(Every creature drinks in joy
at nature's breast;
Good and Bad alike
follow her trail of roses.
She gives us kisses and wine,
a true friend, even in death;
Even the worm was given desire,
and the cherub stands before God.)

"Froh, wie seine Sonnen fliegen
Durch des Himmels prächt'gen Plan,
Laufet, Brüder, eure Bahn,
Freudig, wie ein Held zum Siegen."

(Gladly, just as His suns hurtle
through the glorious universe,
So you, brothers, should run your course,
joyfully, like a conquering hero.)

"Seid umschlungen, Millionen!
Diesen Kuss der ganzen Welt!
Brüder, über'm Sternenzelt
Muss ein lieber Vater wohnen.
Ihr stürzt nieder, Millionen?
Ahnest du den Schöpfer, Welt?
Such' ihn über'm Sternenzelt!
Über Sternen muss er wohnen."

(Be embraced, you millions!
This kiss is for the whole world!
Brothers, above the canopy of stars
must dwell a loving father.
Do you bow down before Him, you millions?
Do you sense your Creator, o world?
Seek Him above the canopy of stars!
He must dwell beyond the stars.)
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
01/23/2014 06:02 am
Valued Member
Canada
129 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uchihadesendent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice coin
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chrsmat71's Avatar
United States
4971 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rugged, but cool indeed.
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Masis's Avatar
United Kingdom
946 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Masis to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't see any BD, just Patina, likely a metal detecting find.
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It only cost £2, so ill blitzkrieg the green powdery stuff. Nip it in the bud, even if the coin suffers for it. This type (not in the name of, but showing) doesn't really seem to sell for any more money than the equivalent Victorinus type, so it'll stay with me and I dont need to worry about careful restoration of the reverse.

As it turns out, Marius is rarer than I thought at 124 on the 207 scale. That makes it the second rarest issuer in my collection (well, of a portrait coin) only 61 places behind my Zenonis. Also, I'm a step closer to the Gallic Empire collection (Ive got Tetricus I/II, Postumus, Victorinus, Marius and Aureolus now, just Laelianus to go).

Laelianus will be difficult...ill have to find an incomplete and difficult to read example if I have a hope of acquiring one (ive now aquainted myself with his types).

EDIT: read up on Marius, he never ruled at the same time as Victorinus, nor would he have been known to Victorinus (certainly, this coin was not issued by Victorinus). Furthermore, he was put into power by the army who had killed Victorinus (he was present at the time of the uprising) so I doubt he'd associate himself to Victorinus. How did this coin come about?
Edited by Ben
01/23/2014 12:40 pm
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pishpash's Avatar
United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There was a revolt at Moguntiacum. Postumus wouldn't let the troops sack the city so they killed him and raised Marius.
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But that cant tell us why theres a coin which shows the bust of Marius but has the legend for Victorinus, when we know there are no coins issued in the name of Marius with the bust of Victorinus (though there was a posthumous issue for Victorinus). I cant see why the new emperor would put the legend for the old emperor on his coins when he was part of the mob that killed him.

The directions for the mint that produced this mustve been good enough to know the legend had changed because they've engraved a brand new bust for the guy. There is no mint attatched to this coin, perhaps it was the besieged city, or a travelling mint.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
EDIT: read up on Marius, he never ruled at the same time as Victorinus, nor would he have been known to Victorinus (certainly, this coin was not issued by Victorinus). Furthermore, he was put into power by the army who had killed Victorinus (he was present at the time of the uprising) so I doubt he'd associate himself to Victorinus. How did this coin come about?

Not sure if I'm reading this correctly

Didn't Victorinus succeed Marius, indeed didn't he have him murdered?

Does your coin have 'VICTORINVS' written on it, cant tell from the picture?
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AH, there you go. a Prime example of me being stupid. It was Postumus he suceeded, Victorinus went after him. The mint mustve got word of the new emperor and starting issuing coins before they had access to his likeness.

Chronology:
Postumus makes the empire
Defeats usurper Laelianus but does not allow his forces to pillage the city and is murdered
Marius takes over from Postumus, being elevated by the army
Marius is killed (some say by a sword of his own making)
Victorinus is proclaimed emperor - the mint issues this coin before they can make a new bust of him, but use his name
Victorinus is killed by the husband of a woman he tried to seduce
Victorinus II is elected emperor by the family of Victorinus, but is nigh on immediately executed (same day)
Domitianus, of whom only 2 coins are known, attempts to usurp the empire
Victoria*, mother of Victorinus, settles the empire and elects Tetricus I as emperor.

*The Historia Augusta mentions coinage issued for her, but this is almost certainly false
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The mint must've got word of the new emperor and starting issuing coins before they had access to his likeness.


Yes - not officially what 'should' have happened (correct way would be to wait for the bust to arrive, get a likeness approved etc) but we all know how corners are often cut, even today when communication is instant. Imagine having to wait weeks for central guidance in the smaller mints, if coins were desperately needed they would have been made, correct bust or not.
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This brings up a philosophical conundrum - does the coin show Victorinus or Marius? Its clearly meant to show Victorinus, but then again the image is of Marius.

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