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1864 2 Cent Die Break Reverse

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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2014  01:29 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Can anyone tell if there is a variety that would have this crack. I have been carrying this coin for about 10 years and it is pretty much worn down to nothing now, but when I first put it in my pocket the crack/break was very pronounced and the date was completely readable. Parts of the reverse were not showing because it was either already worn that much or it was not fully struck or Struck Through Grease or something. I realize this might be not enough to find the variety, but I thought it would not hurt to ask.

1864-2-Cent-Die-Break-Reverse

1864-2-Cent-Die-Break-Reverse

1864-2-Cent-Die-Break-Reverse

1864-2-Cent-Die-Break-Reverse

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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2014  02:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very hard to tell with any certainty due to the wear on this one, but I'm fairly sure it's the Leone variety 54Q, it's also a lightly repunched date, does this coin by chance have a slight reverse rotation around 30 degrees counter clockwise?

No added value for the variety.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2014  03:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi westcoin, thank you for the info. I believe it has a slight rotation but I am not sure it is counter clockwise, it is rotated to the right about 20-30 degrees so I think that would be clockwise but I could be wrong.

Good thing the variety does not add any value because it was a lot nicer 7-10 years ago when I first put it in my pocket. Although, In God We Trust had already been worn down so I was never sure if it was the large or small motto variety. I just use it as a good luck piece and for conversation. I was bored tonight so I decided to ask about it. Thanks again for the info.

I will try to get one of those 2 cent books at the CSNS show this spring. There was a guy there that had all kinds of good books but they were sure pricey.

Kris
Valued Member
Canada
129 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2014  06:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uchihadesendent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice coin
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2014  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a large motto.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2014  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Frank Leone lists the 54Q showing a die break almost identical to yours in location, can't see the other smaller breaks due to the wear on your coin, he says it is almost always found with a rotation of about 30 degrees. Since you confirm the rotation, I'd say it is the 54Q variety then. I don't believe it is listed in any other variety book that I'm aware of, Frank is one of the 2¢ nuts (like me) that has been researching all known die pairings of the series.

I'm using his hard to find and long out of print 1864 2¢ attribution guide. Frank never did any of the other books on other dates, though I've been after him to finish them, it's a lot of work for something that will never make him money and will eat up too much of his time.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
01/25/2014 3:57 pm
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2014  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both for the info. I hope that Frank Leone attribution guide is available. At least I know what to look for. When I looked through all of the books last year I did not even know what to buy.

Kris
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2014  02:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are into every variety of 1864 2¢ pieces it's your book, otherwise, "The Authoritative Reference on Two Cent Coins" by Kevin Flynn is your only other choice to get now. Kliman's book is quite outdated and has no photos, only descriptions, and Kevin's first book "Getting your Two Cent's worth" is totally redone and added to in his latest volume I listed above. (They sell for around the same cost anyways).

I do know Frank is out of his books (he has another volume covering the whole series), it is a spiral bound guide. I've not seen them very often, I paid around $12.00 wholesale and sold them through my old coin website, (though I'd imagine they are a lot more now when available) - probably one you need to watch for them at numismatic book auction sites like Lake, Kolbe & Fanning, Charles Davis, etc. I've never seen one sell on ebay (doesn't mean they haven't but I look at the coin books all the time), and Frank was the only person besides JT Stanton that sold them as I recall.

The 1864 attribution guide came out is 1997 and has 248 pages the actual title is "Longacre's Two-Cent Piece 1864 Attribution Guide" by Frank Leone

I did just hear from Frank (He is in the NYC area, said he has found a bunch of old media and stuff and will be putting it up on ebay, No 2¢ books that I'm aware of though, he did write 13 issues of a newsletter (I was able to get my missing issue from him to complete my set) and he also has some books he did from Sam Thurman Cud series, I picked up. You may want to contact him soon if you want any of those, he told me supply was very limited on the Thurman Cud stuff and the 2¢ Times issues. Franks web site is http://www.1793.com
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2014  02:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for all the great info. It is much appreciated. I don't have a lot of money to spend right now but when I get enough to buy some books I will know what to get. I will check out Franks website. I am saving up just to go to the coin show in April. There were literally several hundred if not thousands of books at one of the dealers tables and I just skimmed them quickly because I did not have any money to spend on books. I was more interested in finding 1878 silver dollars and everyone else there was too! Some of the books I looked at were $75-$100 if not more, but I could tell that they were important books especially if one was to be serious about collecting any specific series. I really enjoy just learning about the different varieties.

Kris
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2014  03:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Kris (my name too different spelling)! I started down the path with 1878 Morgans too. They are tough to find anymore, but their are so many really good ones out there that have never been VAM attributed it's always worth looking for the big score at coin shows, I actually look at Morgans on my first trip around a bourse then work my way back around looking for stuff I'm more interested in these days like early copper and Two Cent Piece varieties. Gotta to get to those 1878 Morgans quick because it seems everyone and their mother in law is also looking at them.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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2CentJimmy's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2014  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 2CentJimmy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I too have one with a Retained Cud between the T and A in states. It has multiple die cracks, it reminds me of a 1921 Morgan VAM coin.Does anyone know if Kevin et al have come to some conclusion on rarity level? It seem sot me that this a relatively rare event in the life of thesre coins. Pictures to follow.
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9796 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2014  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
2centJimmy, you sure the one you have is not an 1865?
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2014  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
2cent Jimmy, if it's the 1865 that you have with a reverse die crack/cud then check out this older thread to see if your coin matches one of the varities shown there.
https://goccf.com/t/89460#89460
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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