Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Specializing in Modern Numismatics 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Adventures In Bidland: Agathokles Tetradrachm

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 2,449Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  10:02 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've had great fun diving into ancient coins and have particularly enjoyed buying several large mixed lots. Blindly buying an unimaged mixed lot as close as I can come to the thrill of digging up my own treasure. I've also bought numerous individual coins along the way and put together a themed collection. It's all been so much fun!

It was time to step it up, to stop buying many little coins and instead go for one special specimen. I wanted a beauty, something breathtaking, a showstopper.

Then I saw it. A deeply struck, well-centered Agathokles tetradrachm. It called to me. Loudly.

ArtCoinsRoma. What on earth were they thinking, putting an crazy low estimated hammer on such a fabulous coin? Recent comps showed much much higher prices. Yes, there is an edge flaw on the flan but it's not really seen head-on. Yes, there are two dark spots on Arethusa's cheek. But that strike! The surfaces! The centering! The artistry! The estimate was clearly wrong but my heart said "Buy it! Do whatever it takes!". I stopped buying coins in anticipation of a big bid (well, almost stopped... I did get a few in the last two months before the auction). Checked my finances. Did some calculations.

I sought expert advice from a collector who routinely acquires high-end coins. I researched comparable sales. I registered with ACR. Checked out their live bidding setup (via Coretech, and I've successfully bid with Coretech in the past). Debated whether to put in a prebid or whether to just bid live. Decided on the latter. Determined my maximum bid and promised myself I'd stick to it.

The auction was scheduled to begin at 4 a.m. my time. No big deal, I've often gotten up in the middle of the night to bid. But should I bid from home, trusting my unreliable ISP and even less reliable power? The electricity in my part of the world goes off frequently, although it hasn't gone off in weeks lately-- as I told another forum member earlier in the day before the auction. It'll probably be OK.

Jinx. The power went off at 7 pm the night before the auction. Still out when I went to bed. It was off for more than 4 hours. I decided to get up at 3 and drive to my office, where we have a much better ISP and a backup generator.

The rest is best told in a timeline.


3:15 am
Why is my alarm going off? Oh right, I'm going to spend money with reckless abandon. Log into Coretech. Forget that it won't run on Chrome. No problem, switch to Safari. Java message, has to update. Java and Adobe seem to be out of date mere days after updating, so annoying-- I should have done that yesterday. Click to download the update.

3:25 am
Shower, dress. Check the computer. Java update still loading. darn snail-paced overpriced ‘high speed' internet connection! Check the current bid; the prebidding period had ended. 19 bids, probably due to the coin being showcased on ACR and Sixbid. Bidding stands at triple the estimate-- completely expected-- still reasonable for the coin and below my planned max. I'm a go for live bidding!

3:45 am
Drive to the office. Listen to some calming classical music. No other cars in sight, make good time. Feeling confident, in control. The power failure was not a bad omen. Thinking positive.

4:05 am
Auction should be starting; ‘my' coin shouldn't be on the block for another hour or two. Time to make some coffee and get set up. Or maybe I should get logged in to Coretech first. Yeah, I'd better do that first.

4:08 am
Install the Java update on my Mac laptop. Open Coretech, log in. Error. BLOCKED. What? NOOOOOO! Why? Maybe our work servers block that type of site. But I'd logged into Coretech for other auction houses before, from work... I try to investigate the blockage but I'm not a computer whiz. Change various security settings. Doesn't work. Try logging in via a work computer, a PC. Same thing! NOOOOOO! What now?!

4:20 am
Maybe I can bid live by phone. I call ACR from my cell and after being transferred to someone fluent in English, the connection went bad. The call was still connected but no audio. NOOOOO! I call back two more times... I didn't hear a ring but it connected, no audio!

4:30 am
Must be something about my office's internet provider that is blocking it. If I hurry, there's still time to drive back home and bid from there. Back in the car, drive in a mad rush, dodging the occasional frog or cat.

4:50 am
Home again. Open up Coretech, log in... BLOCKED! NOOOOO! Frantically google for a fix. Find the settings part of Java and add Coretech's address as an allowed site. Try to log back in. BLOCKED! Add more addresses to the security exception list. STILL BLOCKED! No way to fix it.

4:56 am
Try calling ACR again. Still a bad connection. I don't have a landline.
It's too late, the coin has probably left the block.
It is time to throw in the towel. I am defeated.
Coulda shoulda woulda... perhaps I should have prebid or found a proxy bidder. I should've tried to call ACR from a landline at the office [headbang]. Live and learn.

5:00 am
Might as well do a Hail Mary and email ACR with my absentee bid. Just in case. Probably too late to execute, but it won't hurt to try. No response of course.

5:52 am
I see that a coin friend is online and is asking about the ACR auction. I PM him and ask him to check the hammer price if he is able to log in to Coretech. I'm ready to be put out of my misery. I hope it sold for a million dollars so I won't have to kick myself forever.

6:10 am
He gamely logs in and checks; the auction is only up to lot 40! So much for putting me out of my misery-- now I'm once again frantic to place a bid. There must be something I can do to get a bid in!

6:18 am
Skype! I can call by Skype! First I had to buy some Skype credit. Oh no, after the transaction they say my bank has to verify the charge and they will email the confirmation.

6:20 am
Realize my Skype-linked email is old and no longer functional, scrambled to get the new one in.

6:25 am
Skype landline calls enabled! I call ACR and am transferred to an English-speaker. He gives me another number and name to call. Now I'm getting somewhere, but is it too late?

6:31 am
No answer. Doesn't even ring, just immediately says "busy". Redial redial redial redial. Same thing. Wait, I can just do a Skype text and briefly explain the problem. No response.

6:54 am
Maybe the number they gave me is a cell phone-- and if so, I can text the person. I briefly state who I am, that I am having trouble with Coretech and want to place a bid on lot 166. I've now send an email, a Skype text, and a cell text. I can't think of anything else to try.

6:55 am
Text response! "We have received this message. Thanks." Yay! I suspect my bid will be too low but at least I've tried. Wait a sec, what does that mean, "we have received this message"? They didn't say "We are placing your bid". Just "we received this message". :confused: Fingers crossed.

6:59 am
My friend agrees to watch my lot as it hits the block, unless a toddler attack thwarts his plan.

7:27 am
PM from my friend-- it's MINE! I think. Maybe. It hammered for one increment less than my max, so if they executed my bid I am now the proud and poor owner of a beautiful Agathokles tetradrachm! Cautiously optimistic though... I won't believe it until I confirm with ACR or get an invoice. If it sold for below my max and I didn't win... well, I guess I can spend that money on a good therapist instead.

12:44 pm
Confirmed! I'm the successful bidder. Now to figure out how to send that much money across the pond...

-----------

There was more agitation and uncertainty in trying to get the money to ACR and wondering if there would be a problem with importing the coin (there is a ban on US importation of Syracuse coins!). It did arrive safe and sound a couple of weeks ago. I had a heck of a time trying to take good pictures of this one!

Adventures-In-Bidland:--Agathokles-Tetradrachm

SICILY, Syracuse. Agathokles (317-289)
310-305 BC

AR tetradrachm, 17.40 g, 24 mm
Obv: head of the nymph Arethusa left, wearing grain wreath, earring and necklace; around, three dolphins; under, monogram (NK?)
Rev: ΣYPAKOΣIΩN, fast chariot charioteer leads to left, holding reins and kentron; above, triskeles; in exergue, monogram.
Ref: Ierardi 9; SNG Copenhagen 573 goes., SNG ANS 637

I love this coin! The reverse scene is particularly well done. The horses on this die are rendered more realistically and artistically than most.

Note on obv/rev designation: in some catalogs I see Arethusa listed as the reverse rather than the obverse. I think that is wrong, given the slight concavity of the chariot side. That concavity is typical of the hammer side of the coin, which is usually clearly the reverse. Opinions, anyone?
Edited by ThisIsFun
03/09/2014 10:37 am
Pillar of the Community
ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Additional tidbits about these tetradrachms:

Agathokles is described as a 'tyrant of Syracuse' and he certainly was aggressive and murderous in his earlier years. When things calmed down he proclaimed himself king of Syracuse. During his reign things were apparently more peaceful and history regards him more kindly.

Arethusa was a water nymph who was transformed into an underground stream emerging as a freshwater spring on the Sicilian island of Ortygia, the future site of Syracuse. Ovid wrote of her in Metamorphoses (AD 8). English Romantic poet Percy Bysshe Shelley wrote a lovely poem about her in his 1820 composition, Arethusa. Roman poet Virgil also wrote of her in book III of his 19 BC epic, The Aeneid.

The triskeles symbol is interesting. Its earliest use is seen three millennia before appearing on Syracuse coins. Initially a religious symbol of the sun, likely representing Baal. Agathokles adopted it as his emblem, in theory because the triangular shape resembles the shape of Sicily. For an in-depth review, see The Triskeles on Ancient Greek Coins, an article by John Voukelatos, 2011. Later Sicilian depictions include a gorgon face in the center and that emblem is featured on the flag of Sicily.

Adventures-In-Bidland:--Agathokles-Tetradrachm Adventures-In-Bidland:--Agathokles-Tetradrachm


Pillar of the Community
pishpash's Avatar
United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could barely breath reading that account! Well done TIF you earned it. Fabulous coin, dread to think how much you spent on it!
Pillar of the Community
chrsmat71's Avatar
United States
4981 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply






glad you posted the back story, that reads like a robert ludlum novel!

congrats on THAT...wow.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3446 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Holy Frijoles ! Cashed in the old 401K ....... eh ?
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin along with Nates First Meris are the two tetradrachms I want most in my collection. I'm sure this must have set you back a ton, but I think it's well worth what you may have paid to add it to your growing impressive collection. Congratulations. I love it!
Valued Member
WillyB's Avatar
United States
87 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WillyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The concavity of the Chariot side also makes me think it was struck with the "hammer die" and the Arethusa side received its impression from the "anvil die". A beautiful piece of art with a great story!
Valued Member
awallin01's Avatar
United Kingdom
477 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Marvelous recall of events-I can just sense the frantic urgency your mind encountered on that morning. That coin is exquisite, the detail is phenomenal and I totally agree about the artistry. Over 2 millennium's old and it it's in better condition than the change I just received from my local shop. Congratulations on winning, and great determination shown-never give up!
Pillar of the Community
ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Today on Forvm there is a thread about problems people are experiencing with Coretech. Apparently, in this particular auction many people had problems-- allowing some folks to win their coins far below what they expected.

It is entirely possible that I would not have succeeded in acquiring this coin if Coretech had been working for everyone. There were 19 bids before it even hit the block. It closed only one increment lower than my max bid.

In the middle of the morning's strife, at one point I was thinking "Maybe this is a sign from God that I am just not supposed to buy this coin" (no matter that I'm agnostic, lol). I kept going anyway.

So for the religious person, maybe my continuing on was due to divine intervention-- that since the electronic bidding program was not working for many, this would be my best opportunity to nab a spectacular coin at a lower price (not that it was a low price... but it certainly could have been worse-- I feared it would hammer for 10x estimate and it was "only" 4.4x estimate).

As for the recall of events-- most of this was conveniently time stamped in various urgent private messages, texts, etc. I did write out the story the same morning because I wanted to remember the details of the 'big event'. Glad I did The auction was in early February. I waited until I received the coin and had taken good pictures before posting.

Next time I bid on a monster (which won't be anytime soon), I will consider having a bidding agent live at the auction.
Edited by ThisIsFun
03/09/2014 3:12 pm
Bedrock of the Community
DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. Beautiful coin...that's truly a museum piece!
Valued Member
joseph_curwen's Avatar
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2014  8:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joseph_curwen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ThisIsFun,

Thanks for sharing this awesome story - and for making me feel I was sitting beside you as it happened. Your coin is lovely, a monument to human achievement in what often seems a bleak world. Cherish your coin, for we are all but caretakers for such treasures.

-Joseph Curwen

Valued Member
Jimbo777's Avatar
United Kingdom
201 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2014  06:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimbo777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spectacular coin TIF, I think well worth all the effort.
Pillar of the Community
Dutchgulden's Avatar
Netherlands
1204 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2014  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutchgulden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Amazing coin, like its new! That must have cost a fortune! (If you have the extra money, why not spend it on such pearls like these) Well done!
Pillar of the Community
Ancientnoob's Avatar
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2014  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sweet Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

Pillar of the Community
GERMANICVS's Avatar
Germany
1852 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2014  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GERMANICVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful coin, TIF. You have every reason to be proud. Congratulations!

  Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 2,449Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.39 seconds to rattle this change. Forums