| Author |
 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,459 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
684 Posts |
The dies of this coinage still exist and have been used to mint modern pieces. Because they are not sanctioned I do not consider them restrikes. Lead fantasy versions of the 5C have started appearing recently.
|
|
Valued Member
Germany
194 Posts |
Yes, these are very modern productions. More recent than the restrikes of the small 2 centavos. I would even guess they are being made as we speak.
There's one in silver in today's auction of the ongoing Mexico City convention. No real numismatic value in my opinion.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1757 Posts |
Are they not GB-listed? Yet still garbage? Just asking. Is this a GB screw-up in the book for the lead types? Are all GB - lead types garbage? Again - just asking? What is good or not good? I did recently buy a lead die trial? or set-up piece of a 5 centavo from MCC. It analyzed good like a Pb/Sb mixture as all good die trials do ... very thick ...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
684 Posts |
Its pretty common knowledge that someone is making lead fakes of this type (GB 397) with original dies. The Puebla Tetela del Oro y Ocampo 5C in silver (GB 398, Utberg 7a), if genuine, is a very rare coin.
I have a genuine Durango 1C that is made from lead (GB 107).
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Yes - this is the GB type I bought BUT I did do a SEM/EDS - I believe its real since its a GB-UNL type and SIMILAR to the GB-397 type and purchased directly from the MCC. The amount of organic matter (carbon,oxygen, aluminum and copper) on the surface along with the lead value of 85% and antimony value of 10% in the metal alloy ratio (i.e., antimony always added to lead die trials for higher tensile strength during striking) is consistent with most lead die trials I have seen although both obv. and rev. are struck and this is not an obverse or reverse uniface piece. I am convinced its real. More of a set-up piece prior to striking possibly since its obverse/reverse struck and about 10% O/C. It has the fabric of a period piece and is not modern in its fabric or alloy characteristics.
I have not analyzed other pieces of a lead alloy type however from the REV/MEX period. The EDGE (very important) is unquestionably a century old ... with edge striations 360* around. Its 22.7 mm, 11.0 grams and very thick at 2.8 mm.
I am 99.9% convinced its real based on these parameters above ...
So how do you determine a lead type is REAL when you purchase a REVMEX period piece on E-Bay? I guess you don't?
Edited by colonialjohn
03/13/2014 9:40 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
684 Posts |
Please consider buying the book (Amaya, Utberg, Gaytan, GB) before the coin.
The coin is cool, but I would not buy it. BTW, MCC is a very knowledgeable and honorable seller.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Yes - I heard about this book. $225.00. Expensive but fantastic. Its being reprinted in April or something. Will buy for a birthday present in September. I do not collect REVMEX but only in type. Let me know if you see AMECAMECA pieces in high grade at auction. I am familiar with the (3) overpriced in estate company on ebay and the MCC inventory - of course. |
|
Valued Member
Germany
194 Posts |
John, watch out, there is a dangerous modern counterfeit which is not even described in Amaya (yet, I hope he won't forget to put it in the next edition) of the Amecameca 25 Centavos piece, which is made in several different metals. One made it even into a Heritage auction (slabbed!)
As far as lead coins are concerned, I am not aware of any outside the Durango series that would be considered regular issues and not off-metal strikes/ patterns/trial strikes etc. And even in Durango, the 1 Cent piece is the only one that seems to have been produced in larger numbers in lead.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
I also find the lead issues ODD in that they are die linked haphazardly with the obverse and/or reverse at times to other regular issues as seen in the GB book. I was thinking in some cases the lead pieces MAYBE? were like die trials to test the dies on softer lead issues and then strike the remaining issues in copper like in the REAL world ... just dreaming ... <BG>.
It will be interesting to see if antimony is consistent with all the lead pieces ... I do find these 1914 Durango lead pieces VERY INTERESTING.
Are Amecamecas ONLY? in copper? Still investigating ...
|
| |
Replies: 9 / Views: 1,459 |
|
Posted 03/13/2014 11:57 am
