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199? DDO On Liberty?

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Slamnbass's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  02:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers


199?-DDO-On-Liberty?

199?-DDO-On-Liberty?

199?-DDO-On-Liberty?
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7TF's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  02:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin was most likely struck with a Grease Filled Die in the last digit area. I don't see any doubling in Liberty but I am not good with the really minute stuff.
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Slamnbass's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  02:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thanks-there's something real strange going on in 'liberty' but it's hard to get a good pic of it but I'm trying-almost can see a backward 'R' also?
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 Posted 04/17/2014  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


199?-DDO-On-Liberty?

199?-DDO-On-Liberty?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  04:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The LIBERTY is showing Die Deterioration. This appears toward the rim of the coin. On LIBERTY you will see it on the left side, on the date you will see it on the right side and the motto you will see it on the tops of the devices. As mentioned the area of the date was struck through a grease filled area of the die, not allowing the full date to appear. Interesting but not a big premium for this.
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Slamnbass's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  04:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks-that makes sense but does that cause this doubling effect too?

199?-DDO-On-Liberty?

199?-DDO-On-Liberty?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  05:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Correct. That is not actually doubling, but die wear that takes off the edge of the die toward the rim. When the die wears away, (Negative) the coins (Positive) show the indentation on the die as a raised area. Die wear on the single squeeze dies look differently than the multi-hubbed dies that were used years ago. Here is an example of what the die wear looked like back then:
199?-DDO-On-Liberty?
199?-DDO-On-Liberty?
With the single squeeze dies they now start to look like this:
199?-DDO-On-Liberty?
199?-DDO-On-Liberty?
The lower profile of the devices, shows wear differently.
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Slamnbass's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  05:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow ok-but you would see that effect all the way in to the E and R on LIBERTY also? This is a new one for me-this is why I ask a lot of questions? Thanks
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 Posted 04/17/2014  05:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, you will see it all over the place on coins struck with over polished dies and worn dies.
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  06:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doubled dies DDO's and DDR's - when you see one - will knock your socks off.
There are minor varieties of the DDO and DDR as well, but those you will probably need a good microscope or Loupe for.

They appear sometimes as two of the same letter, number or other devices, but at the same hieght, and definately thicker.

199?-DDO-On-Liberty?

Edited by Collector-Corner
04/17/2014 07:03 am
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 Posted 04/17/2014  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The more I look at the comparisons you guys send the more I'm starting to get it and see the difference-not easy tho! Lol...I'm I right in assuming on true DDO and DDR's that both images will be of the same shade also? Like in mine I notice the secondary effect I think I'm seeing is of a lighter shade but in your examples of true double die's I see both images are the same shade or is that irrelevant?
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 Posted 04/17/2014  07:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know about the shading , but the letters will be raised. Notice how what you are seeing is flat? Wait till you find an actual machine doubled coin. Then you will really have some questions LOL.

Check out this link to see what a MD coin looks like compared to a real DD.
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 Posted 04/17/2014  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Shading doesn't have much to do with it all. Its more of height and clarity. DDO's and DDR's the stampings should look close to the same.
On minor variations, there will be "added thickness", but for some that phrase is over-abused and not a definitive explanation of what is going on with that particular die that hammers the coin.

John Wexler ( http://doubleddie.com/ ) has an excellent site on how determine the difference between a true doubled die ( DDO or DDR), and the worthless Mechanical Doubling (MD).
http://doubleddie.com/144822.html

Another site that shows som DDO vs. MD comparison is here;
http://www.errorvariety.com/OFD/MD.html

An important thing to remember about all this is;

Doubled dies should ADD to the overall size of the devices, typicaly at the same height or close to it.

Machine Doubling will reduce the overall size of the devices. Typically the letters are cut down, and some areas may look flat.

Dies that hammer the coins will age and wear down. The older the die, the more likely that Machine Doubling will occur.

Edited by Collector-Corner
04/17/2014 08:50 am
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Sudz's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  10:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sudz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, those pictures should be part of a sticky note at the top of this forum. It would answer a lot of people's questions. Especially those that don't wish to, or can't, post. IMMHO...
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7TF's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gary, I forgot to add the link, but the one you linked to is the page I was on..
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2014  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I took some of those recently and probably this is the first I've posted some of them. I keep adding to the image library. I'm over 3,100+ images on my image host. Just seeing the images is nice, but to see them applied to a discussion are priceless.
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