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Just Because You Saw It On Ebay...

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Pillar of the Community
coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  3:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
doesn't make it collectible.

There are thousands upon thousands of people buying and selling coins with doubling or apparent 'errors' on ebay every day. Of those thousands and thousands, only about 25% have a clue what they are buying or selling.

The error and variety market was built on a foundation of rarity many years ago (before the internet) by people who knew what they were doing, and by collectors who wanted to achieve the goal of completing a collection of coins that were never supposed to leave the mint for one reason or another. There are specific forms of doubling and specific errors that have rarity that are valuable, and it's these coins that solidify the market.

When you see a mutilated coin or a coin with die chatter ( Machine Doubling) sell on ebay for collectible premium value, you are looking at a case of someone who doesn't know what they have selling it, or a case of someone who doesn't know what they are doing spending their money on something hoping the seller is being honest and knows what they are doing. You are actually seeing a lot of junk being passed back and forth between novice buyers and sellers who do not understand the real market, don't know what the real errors are, and are selling or buying anything they can get their hands on to attempt to create rarity in very common non-error coins.

When I see someone pull up an example of one of these transactions on ebay to justify value in a non-collectible mutilated or non-error coin, I have to wonder what their intention is...do they want to sell this common non-collectible piece of pocket change to someone else just to collect a profit? You know, the buyer didn't have a clue and what they don't know can't hurt them...

One of the things I like most about the numismatic community is its level of honesty, and that level of honesty is shaken every time someone is told they have a worthless coin and they insist on proving value by selling it at a profit to someone who doesn't have a clue. This proves only two things...that there are people who wouldn't take knowledged advice no matter what, thus they shouldn't be asking questions in the first place, and that there are people who would do anything for a buck, including risking their own integrity.

Bottom line...you come here with a coin and ask questions. The questions are answered by people with experience and knowledge. Take those answers and do the right thing or don't ask the questions in the first place. If you are going to insist your ground off, beat up, and machine doubled coins are valuable, then you have your answer without asking the question. If you sell them, you are chancing having another novice collector lose interest because they bought a damaged face-value coin from you trusting you knew what you were doing, and you either didn't know or didn't care enough to bother listening to people who do know. It's just not right to do it that way. Understand the market you're dealing with or don't deal within it. There are other people out there who depend on income generated by this collector market, and those who are ripping others off with common junk are ruining it for the ones who do the research and spend the time it takes to locate the coins with real value for people to enjoy.

Okay, I'm done.
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Amazon99's Avatar
United States
2443 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Amazon99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting read. What made you write it?
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24148 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Amen. Thanks Chuck.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said Chuck !

Metalman

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scoutjim99's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scoutjim99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
great job
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for taking the time to make this post. I hope everyone takes the time to read this.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Interesting read. What made you write it?


He wrote it because it seems like the majority of people to whom those words deserve to be addressed are in his specialty. Coppercoins has to be the bearer of bad tidings concerning rarity/value more than anyone else in this forum, and he gets the least respect while doing so.

Sometimes I wish I could find him a cluebat that worked over TCP/IP.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24148 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2007  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just-Because-You-Saw-It-On-Ebay...
Quote:
Sometimes I wish I could find him a cluebat that worked over TCP/IP
Is that anything like the grammarbat?
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2007  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are many with a great amount of knowledge, and there are those who lack the same knowledge. When one tries to combine the two, there comes out a person with a great respect for the one who took the time to assist, or one that is TOO HARD-HEADED to see the merit in what was said.
There are those who will take offense at the way Chuck expresses himself. I feel very sorry for these folks, because they lost a great chance to learn from one who has MY respect, and appreciation for his help, in many areas, not just collecting! Pardon my "ranting, and raving", but I don't like to see a man with Chucks talents, and abilities slighted as has been done in the past!
Dick
Rest in Peace
Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2007  5:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great read coppercoins. Thank you for taking the time to write and post it. You are dead on with your statements. I wish people would learn to use the word "rare" more judiciously. Many people walk away from this great hobby because they have been burned. Education, education education! And as you have pointed out repeatedly, when you solicit advice from a pro, stop arguing and heed the advice given. That is teaching and learning in action. We are lucky to have someone with your expertise and patience on this forum Mike
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Ken_3567's Avatar
United States
651 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2007  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ken_3567 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bravo coppercoins! Your story also applies to the hobby as hole with folks cleaning, altering, plating, etc... It's truly sad to see folks turned off to the hobby.

Unfortunately, folks like yourself have to be the bad guy to tell them the truth with some listening, others disbelieving, and others left with a feeling of being violated from being robbed. As smart as folks have become it's incredible how naive their trust in the web has become.
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hunter20ga's Avatar
United States
1173 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2007  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hunter20ga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Couldn't agree more, Coppercoins. Thank you for posting that. I'm not sure exactly why you chose to post this now, but have a good guess just which straw broke the camel's back on this one.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2007  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
back for a moment...

There was no one specific thing that had me post this thread. I posted it beause of a number of incidents I can remember, here included, where people are trying to get their experience and knowledge by watching ebay auctions, and that's simply not the place to learn. I have also seen a number of times where different people have posted something to the effect of, "well, it's probably not worth anything, but I could sell it on ebay." Well, probably yes...but it's not ethically correct unless you run the auction to state, "this coin isn't worth anything because it's not an error coin at all - it's a damaged coin, but I thought it was neat and had money to blow on auction fees, so bid accordingly."
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garylcsr's Avatar
United States
1952 Posts
 Posted 07/29/2007  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add garylcsr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"this coin isn't worth anything because it's not an error coin at all - it's a damaged coin, but I thought it was neat and had money to blow on auction fees, so bid accordingly."


you know Chuck I have seen these exact words on ebays auctions that have hit the hundreds of dollar mark? lol funny but I have seen it.
and thanks for this post. it is about time I just hope that it gets to the folks that need to hear it.
Gary
Member
amac44's Avatar
United States
3242 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2007  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said CC
Pillar of the Community
Vaslin's Avatar
United States
914 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2007  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vaslin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
*APPLAUSE*
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