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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,101 |
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Valued Member
United States
139 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts |
Given the paucity of photos of a VAM 8C, I really can't tell for sure. One thing that gives me pause is the fact that your coin has a double clash, while the one pictured as the 8C plate coin has a single clash. This doesn't mean it's not 8C, but it deserves a closer look. The other clashes are strong, but not in places where they're typically mentioned in the listings.
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Valued Member
 United States
139 Posts |
I just noticed another clash as well next to the other wreath. This one was very hard to photograph, but fairly obvious to the eye under 10x magnification. It would appear that this one corresponds to a clash just below the lips on the front. The other unknown clash on the opposite side seems to correspond to the cap vee, but I am not sure. 
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Valued Member
 United States
139 Posts |
I just keep noticing more things. Notice the clash below the lip. I think this goes with the clash in the left wreath on the other side. Now it seems that it is closer to 5a, but without the doubled ear or 18. 
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
What you're seeing is clashing in the "expected" areas - the one next to the right wreath which you mentioned not finding anything about is what one would expect to be the very first location to see clashing. Oftimes, it's the only place one sees a reverse clash on a Morgan. If clashing appears elsewhere on the reverse, it can be pretty much assumed a clash will show there. Your coin is definitely not 8B. The neck and n clashes are in the wrong place, and the cracks around the date rule it out. Those cracks also rule out 8D. Unfortunately - as messydesk mentions - there's not enough public information regarding 8C to confirm one way or another. And the 8A description shows a coin which might be one of the other sub-VAMs. And then there's E through H, some of which might be intermediate stages of other VAMs....you could even have what's technically a VAM-8 from a die pair previously unknown to VAMming. Yours is a heavily-clashed coin, doubled as messydesk mentioned, and these images do a pretty good job of defining whatever VAM/stage it is. But VAM-8 alone could be the work of years for a single researcher, finding and recording specific die pairs, without ever being "definitive" of the VAM. At a reasonable production rate per die, one can expect that at least 50 and probably more individual die pairs were used in 1884-P production - not counting alternate pairings of existing dies - and with only 25 VAMs numbered for the date you can see how very little we actually know about 1884 as of this day. VAMming is pretty much the poster child for  sometimes. 
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Is there a dash under the second 8?
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: Is there a dash under the second 8?
Even if it is - I looked and thought not - V2 and V11 crack in different locations than this one.
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Valued Member
 United States
139 Posts |
I looked at multiple different angles and could find no dash under the 8. I believe I did a fairly good job at capturing all of the identifiers of this coin. Ssuperdave, if I wanted to pursue researching this particular year/die combo further, where would I go or who would I contact?
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
You could post your photos on the VAMworld message board to see if some one recognizes the pups on your Morgan. That die crack on the obverse that extends into the neck area is out of the ordinary and the crack through the date should be like a finger print. I actually stopped at VAM-20 to take a second and third look, it's very close but doesn't appear to be an exact match. Or, you could send the coin to messydesk, aka John Baumgart, at Variety Slabbing Service to attribute your coin. John is one of the VAM gurus over at VAMworld.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:Or, you could send the coin to messydesk, aka John Baumgart, at Variety Slabbing Service to attribute your coin. John is one of the VAM gurus over at VAMworld. You'll note he's already posted in this thread.  I'm thinking this needs to go up at VAMworld, as a request for input from members who already own a known 8C. The images here should be sufficient for someone who already knows, to ID the coin. Fair warning, JoshHellcat, posting images at VAMworld seems difficult for some. It's not, but you have to follow the protocol exactly. Most easily done by uploading your images to the site, and don't forget to name them something unique (I use the initials of my username there - SuperDave - as a prefix for each filename, as in SDxxxx.jpg) so they don't overwrite any existing images.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Quote: You'll note he's already posted in this thread Yes, already noted. I read his response the day it was posted. I was really responding to this part of his reply Quote: but it deserves a closer look thinking that the coin in hand my be what is needed to identify the die pairing. 
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
I think John meant it needs a closer look by Leroy Van Allen.
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
There seems to be several clashed n VAMs with few photos on the pages. A good die marker needs to be found for all of them to straighten them out.
Edited by 7TF 05/14/2014 06:09 am
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,101 |
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