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 Replies: 24 / Views: 3,841 |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
I sent in 4 Seated quarters to PCGS recently for grading. I am appalled at what kind of grades they got. Two of the quarters have been cleaned and two have not. The problem, the ones with cleaning came back with grades and the full originals came back with details. Have a look. Unfortunately, I didn't intend to use the pics, they were just a personal reference and made little effort to make them good. This is a rare 1869. The obverse looked ok, but the reverse clearly shows cleaning. The level of "off-color" on the eagle is actually more pronounced in hand than the pics show. Graded VG-10. Thought it had a chance for low fine and was hoping for fine details, but thought VG details was coming.   Next, we have another rare coin, the 1853/4. pretty much the entire coin surface is dull. It's cleaning may have been old, but clearly something was done to it. Graded VF-30. Was expecting VF details.   Now we move on to the 1849. The pics do not do it justice. It was absolutely gorgeous. The "hits" you see were mostly poor pick-ups from the cam angle. The coin has great details and amazing original rainbow tone with darker brown over-tones. No way in any shape or form this piece has a problem if you saw it in hand. Graded VF details cleaned. Especially obnoxious as it was no worse than a VF-35 (probably XF-40 IMO) and lumping it into VF cleaned is horrible.   Lastly, I had an absolutely amazing 1891. Sorry I don't have pics. It was a beaming full cartwheel (ear to ear) BU piece. Probably an MS-63, chance at 64, which is hard to find in a seated series. Graded UNC details cleaned. Are you kidding me. UNC details. I would have bet a decent amount the ones that came back cleaned were originals-and I maintain they are. I would also have bet a decent amount the graded two were actually cleaned. Unfortunately people do buy slabs and not coins so, all in all, I lost about 100 on the 49 and lost many many hundreds on the 91. I "gained" a couple each hundred each on the overdate and 69. |
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Pillar of the Community
968 Posts |
The '69 looks the most market acceptable out of the three imho.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1531 Posts |
Something about the 1849 just doesn't look right to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2757 Posts |
I don't disagree with the details versus no-details designations. With the 1849, perhaps it was the shimmery area to the left of the date that looks rubbed that gave them the red flag. Besides, the good thing about slabs is that you can always break them out.
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Pillar of the Community
968 Posts |
Quote:
Something about the 1849 just doesn't look right to me. Cleaned and retoned, imho. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
The 1869 looks OK honestly. The 1853 was obviously cleaned, and to have received a non details grade compared to the 49 is silly. The 49 color looks odd, but if it was cleaned, it was cleaned less harshly than the 53 was. I too was recently disappointed with PCGS grading two of my Seated half dimes. One came back environmental damage (had the wrong color toning = env damage) and another was cleaned (but compared to your 53 above I don't know how that could be possible). 1844 - PCGS deemed this XF details cleaned (some luster remains in the fields)  1854-O - PCGS deemed this XF details environmental damage (the toning is blue/green with luster)  Edited by EFLargeCents
05/19/2014 8:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
none of them should be in problem free holders and the only reason the 1869 made it problem free is the limited number of them on the market that are as borderline as yours but had PCGS pop numbers been different I believe it winds up in a details/damaged holder. You do own the only known VG10 in a PCGS holder however so that's quite interesting for the coin today.
sorry for MHO but I see what I do
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
This thread well illustrates why I rarely utilize the "services" of PCGS. IMHO, they should at least provide something of a rebate or credit for the slabbing expense that they arbitrarily save on the coins that are returned in body bags.
I'd be curious to see what NGC would do on the above coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1277 Posts |
No body bags anymore. They are put in "details" holders
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2757 Posts |
non-genuine coins are returned in body bags.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1277 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
No more body bags, huh? Evidently, it's been awhile since I last utilized PCGS!
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Pillar of the Community
 1028 Posts |
The 1849 looks much better in hand than the pics. It also looks a darker brown with rainbow colors. Believe me, (in hand) if that coin has been cleaned then so has almost every single higher grade Seated quarter I've ever seen gets a details holder. I mentioned not having pics, but my BU 1891 has nearly as much luster as a modern ATB Quarter. I could place imaginary ants on that thing a see-saw them back and forth on the cartwheel. UNC details is a rare grade as it is. The few I've seen were all old cleaning pieces where a collector form a previous generation probably wanted their BU piece untoned and white. They were all obvious. My piece would represent the best UNC details coin I've ever seen in my entire life. I don't even know how many hundreds I lost on that designation-depends on what the UNC is...63, 64? Then, of course, in the same exact submission I get a grade on two coins where I am pretty certain they have been cleaned. Come on. I know my 1869 is a very rare coin and is now a pop 1 for the grade, but it's been cleaned, seriously. The 1853/4 is also rare, but isn't even as rare. It's cleaning is also more pronounced if you ask me. The fact of the matter is, this is a sham submission if you grade conservative or liberal. If one assumes my 1891 and 1849 to be cleaned, it is impossible to see the 69 and 53/4 as original. If one sees the 53/4 and 69 as original, there is no way on the planet my other two get details holders. The grading was plain wrong. I have generally been spot on with my expectations in the past on the coins I've submitted before. Almost exact agreement. This time, I see all 4 coins differently than PCGS. Two where I gained a several hundred dollars and two where I lost money I felt their sale would deserve. |
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Valued Member
United States
406 Posts |
Yes, PCGS has been doing Details grades rather than body bags for a couple of years now. Best Regards,  George |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
That 1849 is not remotely "original surfaces." No chance whatsoever that natural toning reaches the devices before filling the fields, and the varied coverage simply does_not_happen in the "natural" world. I don't lnow about the other coins, but PCGS got the 1849 right.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
The 1849 really jumps out at you as being messed with. Hate seeing that happen to a coin with great bones.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Replies: 24 / Views: 3,841 |
Posted 05/19/2014 8:29 pm
