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 Replies: 24 / Views: 3,846 |
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Pillar of the Community
 1028 Posts |
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That 1849 is not remotely "original surfaces." No chance whatsoever that natural toning reaches the devices before filling the fields, and the varied coverage simply does_not_happen in the "natural" world. I don't lnow about the other coins, but PCGS got the 1849 right. Natural toning has not reached the devices before filling the fields. Besides, if that were the problem it would have been called questionable color 91, not 92. Again, these pics were a personal reference and I didn't originally take them with the intention they'd be seen. On the 49, I chose a specific lighting and cam angle to try and capture the rainbow for myself. The coin in hand is a nice, even dark brown (more in the fields in fact) with rainbow undertones. When you say you "don't know about the others" are you implying you agree they messed up or are you not sure? My 49 pics are probably not helping that coin's case, but the fact that some posters think that one or both of the other coins are fine, and saying the 49 is sooooo obvious tells me people just don't want to rock the boat against PCGS. How much does anyone here want to bet that if I posted another thread "claiming" PCGS just slabbed my 49' VF-35 and my 69 as VG or F details, that people (who haven't seen this thread) would say things like "the 49' has amazing tone, but the 69 has clearly been messed with" or "the 49' is a beautiful coin, but the 69 has been obviously cleaned." I doubt the mods would appreciate such a thread so I won't do it, but it would be an interesting experiment on the courage and sensibility of our posters against the big bad PCGS. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I'm on my smartphone, and the images of your other coins aren't clear enough as a result for me to trust my opinion. I'll look closer at them from home later.
That should communicate my certainty regarding the 1849, and the usual vector for such color - especially on a circulated coin - is a cleaning stripping the surfaces and making them vulnerable to toning again like the coin was when it was Mint State. That's why you so rarely see a circulated coin with any significant color. Color like that on a circulated coin is an instant indicator of recovery from cleaning.
I stand by my agreement with PCGS' opinion on that one.
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
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That should communicate my certainty regarding the 1849, and the usual vector for such color - especially on a circulated coin - is a cleaning stripping the surfaces and making them vulnerable to toning again like the coin was when it was Mint State. That's why you so rarely see a circulated coin with any significant color. Color like that on a circulated coin is an instant indicator of recovery from cleaning. I do agree with this statement. That is true. It would be pretty strange to see a G/VG with nice colors. Of course, the closer one gets to MS, the more acceptable it becomes. A XF-40 IMO (VF-35 I suppose) can get natural coloring. The colors also don't look as extravagant in hand---I took those pics on purpose that way. The coin looks beautiful, but it's primarily a brown coin. In my experience seated silver also runs the gamete on natural color more so than more recent classic silver. You don't often rainbow colors except on proofs, I know, but you can take 10 different original pieces and they will be 10 completely different shades of brown, grey, or even nearly black. With Morgans, barbers, Mercs, etc....you will see more diverse and frequent rainbows, but when they just tone dark, there is much less variance. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7624 Posts |
PCGS gave the coins the grades which they thought they deserved at the time they graded them.
You can always bust em out of the holders and submit them to NGS or ANACS and see what happens.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8517 Posts |
I wouldn't take it personal, the 49 is what it is. It still has value. No doubt in my mind that had you posted it in the grading section that it would've gotten hammered.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Pillar of the Community
968 Posts |
Quite frankly, if I were a grader at PCGS, I would have given details grades to all three based on your images. I just think the '69 is the most market acceptable due to rarity and wear. I wouldn't buy any of them for my personal collection regardless of their slabbed grade, or lack of thereof. You have to remember that PCGS engages in market grading, so they essentially price coins... so the true technical grade doesn't matter so much as what they think it's probably worth. In their opinion, the '53 and '69 are coins worthy of problem-free prices. If you want coins grade strictly on ANA standards, find a company that grades on ANA standards (lol good luck) and submit to them. Edited by chasingtailbar
05/20/2014 2:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
I wonder why no one has asked you why you even bothered sending in altered (cleaned) coins in for grading, knowing beforehand they are altered.
If I were to see those coins in any type of auction I would not buy them, as they don't have a "cleaned" reference on the slabs.
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
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I wonder why no one has asked you why you even bothered sending in altered (cleaned) coins in for grading, knowing beforehand they are altered.
If I were to see those coins in any type of auction I would not buy them, as they don't have a "cleaned" reference on the slabs. This is a pretty simple question to answer. First I would like to point out that coins with an old cleaning aren't exactly in the same boat as an "altered" coin. It's not not there is a hole and graffiti on them. The two that came back with cleaning I didn't think were cleaned-frankly I still don't. the UNC details 91 is worth probably a good 250 even in its cleaned holder. The 1853/4 needed authentication as well as grading as the overdate is too difficult to show in pics and it would be worth a couple hundred even if graded VF cleaned. The 1869 has only a few dozen certified examples in existence and is estimated to be 3 times as rare as a 1916 Standing liberty (though less expensive due to demand). That coin would have been worth about 500 or so even in a details slab. So unless you believe a coin has to basically be worth 1000 or more to earn a slab, that's why they were all sent in. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 3,846 |
First Page
Posted 05/20/2014 1:24 pm
