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1672 4 Mariengroschen Lippe-Detmold

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jpbone's Avatar
United States
1959 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2014  11:57 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jpbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Well, I've been moving to what US coin collectors call "the dark side", which is the foreign coin market. I'm liking it because I buy what appeals to my eye and not the next coin type/date I'm missing on the list. I also like it because much older coins can be bought for a fraction of the cost of some "rare" US coins. I would like any education on this particular coin as possible. Being close to expert status on US coins in general, my knowledge on foreign coins is close to zero. I like the look of this coin. And at $30, I figured I couldn't go wrong. Thanks in advance!

1672-4-Mariengroschen-Lippe-Detmold

1672-4-Mariengroschen-Lippe-Detmold
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BobAlmighty125's Avatar
United States
199 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2014  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BobAlmighty125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if you're familiar with the Krause catalogs, but they're the most popular reference books among 'dark side' collectors. This is what mine (17th C., Edition 4 (2008)) has to say about your coin:

KM# 82 4 MARIENGROSCHEN (1/9 Thaler)
Silver Ruler: Simon Heinrich Obv: Crowned SH monogram,
date Obv. Legend: G(R).LIPP.SILBER.MVN(T)Z
Note: Varieties exist.

Date Mintage VG F VF XF Unc
1672 IH/(e) 14,000 20.00 45.00 80.00 120 â€"
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BobAlmighty125's Avatar
United States
199 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2014  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BobAlmighty125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, the catalog provides information on Lippe-Detmold:

The Counts of Lippe ruled over a small state in northwestern
Germany. In 1528/9 they became counts; in 1720 they were
raised to the rank of princes, but did not use the title until 1789.
Another branch of the family ruled the even smaller Schaumburg-
Lippe. Lippe joined North German Confederation in 1866, and
became part of the German Empire in 1871. When the insane
Prince Alexander succeeded to the throne in 1895, the main
branch reached an end, and a ten-year testamentary dispute
between the Biesterfeld and the Schaumburg-Lippe lines followed
- a Wilhelmine cause celebre. The Biesterfeld line gained
the principality in 1905, but abdicated in 1918. In 1947 Lippe was
absorbed by the German Land of North Rhine-Westphalia.
RULERS
Simon VI, 1563-1613
Simon VII, 1613-1627
Simon Ludwig, 1627-1636
Simon Philip, 1636-1650
Johann Bernhard, 1650-1652
Hermann Adolf, 1652-1666
Simon Heinrich, 1666-1697
Friedrich Adolf, 1697-1718

MINT OFFICIALS' INITIALS

IH/(e) 1671-95 Johann Hoffmann in Detmold
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jpbone's Avatar
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1959 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2014  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info. Yes, I have heard of and seen the books you mentioned, I just haven't gotten them yet. Hard to believe an estimated 14k minted, yet not all that expensive?! What grade would you consider this example? I was thinking F-VF.
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zxcccxz's Avatar
Canada
5417 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2014  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zxcccxz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My thoughts on grade was VF-20.
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BobAlmighty125's Avatar
United States
199 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2014  11:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BobAlmighty125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VF20 is right about what I was thinking. Krause says you paid $30 for an $80 coin...nice deal!
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United States
211 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2014  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyJames to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jpbone,

With German States coins we see a phenomenon that we don't see with US coins. The rarer an item is, the more likely it is to have a higher value with US coins. But we don't always see that with German States coins, even in small mintages. There are hundreds of German 'states' and thousands of types of German States coins to collect with most of them having very modest mintages. The effect is that there are so many different types to collect, each one becomes kind of obscure and never really develops a defined demand for it. Most collectors stick to the larger silver coins (Thalers, and the like), and you see those maintain high values. It's definitely a situation where the collectors looking for that specific coin are just as rare as the coin itself.

When I try to figure a price on these rare German minors, I mentally price them in relation to other coin types from the same era, of the same size, of similar quality. You end up having to group them together to make any sense out of it all.
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jpbone's Avatar
United States
1959 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2014  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JimmyJames, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. A situation I would like to exploit more often. I like the look if these old coins!
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