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 Replies: 34 / Views: 3,941 |
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New Member
United States
46 Posts |
Since copper coins brought up some of the ethical dilemmas in coin collecting, what do all of you think of the following scenarios? (I gleaned these scenarios from http://coins.about.com/)Scenario A David, 28, has been collecting Statehood Quarters for about five years, ever since his own state's quarter came out. He's smart, assertive, and comes across as pretty confident and knowledgeable when talking about his quarter collection, although he really doesn't know nearly as much as he seems to. David's wife is about to have their first baby, and he needs to raise some quick money, so he takes all of his rolls of quarters to a coin dealer. The dealer examines the apparently unsearched bank-wrapped rolls, and notices that the "window" coin in the end of one of the Wisconsin Quarter rolls is an "extra leaf" variety (which is worth hundreds of dollars per coin.) Should the dealer tell David about the variety or just quietly buy the rolls? Why? Scenario B Mabel, an 87 year old widow whose husband recently passed on, wants to sell her husband's small coin collection. It consists of a few incomplete Whitman folders, including the Wheat cent books, Mercury dimes, Buffalo nickels, and a scattering of loose Walking Liberty halves and Morgan dollars. Mabel goes to a coin dealer, who notes that although some of the holes are empty, most of the rare and valuable key coins are there, many in decent middle grades. Mabel is nervous, of course, and makes the comment, "I know these coin sets aren't complete and that the most valuable coins are probably the ones missing." Should the dealer enlighten Mabel about the truth, or simply buy the collection at the best price he can get? Why? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Taking advantage of a seller, under any circumstances, is immoral. I do it all the time on ebay. I consider myself a moral person. How did I rationalize this? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
Interesting scenarios. I honestly don't know if the dealer has any legal obligation to tell either of the folks what they do or do not have. Ethically I think the dealer would/should explain what they see and suggest actual values or recommendations as to how to proceed. I have been in both situations in a way. I inherited a bunch of coins and notes. My brother took the lump sum to a local dealer in Pa. and was offered $600 for everything in the lot. I got all of the items and brought them here to Mass. I walked into a dealer for the first time and he was breaking out books everywhere telling me what I do and don't have and explaining it. I ended up selling just the silver alone for $1500+ on ebay and still have about that much in notes..... Unfortunately, you just don't know which one you are going to find. Really no different than buying on ebay. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
quote:
How did I rationalize this?
After you purchase the coin you inform the seller what they really did have and say nanner nanner? At least they learn I guess.  Or, maybe you inform them what they really have, but they honor your original price and are happy to have learned something. No clue if this is what you were getting at.... |
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Valued Member
United States
144 Posts |
That just goes to show you why you should always get more than one bid, and make sure the bidders KNOW you are getting more than one bid.
I just read a story in the Wall Street Journal, that told of a guy haggling to buy a pair of shorts in Beijing. He bought them for 30 (local currency). They usually start haggling at 200 for locals, and 1800 for foreigners. They told him that one or two pay the high price every day.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
First...the scenarios presented:
In both cases the dealer has an obligation to tell the seller what he/she has. This has to do with those old-fashioned values of ethics and integrity, on top of basic honesty. The second scenario, where a neophyte, with no knowledge, is depending upon the dealer to be treated fairly, is the most clear cut.
The first scenario, with a "knows less than he thinks" seller, is a bit more difficult, perhaps, but still I feel the dealer should be fair.
In both cases, the dealer is the expert; the sellers are something less.
Now...in Dave's case, with online auctions. The buyer (Dave or any one of us) does not have the same obligation. The situation is fundamentally different because the seller is offering a coin (or coins) to a host of different buyers simultaneously, in the expectation of getting a fair price. The successful buyer must outbid all competitors. Potential buyers may or may not be experts, and may or may not make fair offers for the coins for sale.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Senario 1
The youngster has set himself up to be taken ,,but in the world of coins that should not happen,, the dealer if He has one shread of integrity will at least make an offer that insures that integrity ,,should he pay full retail for the coins ? of course not ,,that would be poor business but the offer should be fair .
Senario 2
This poor women ignored Her Husband for years as He was building His collection, and like wise the collector was less than kind to his widow by not taking the time to keep good records of His coins and values.
should the seller take advantage of this little aged women ? not if He intends to survive ,, you know if a dealer will take advantage of a person in this ladies circumstances He has no honesty within him ,, its just a matter of time until that become evident to all but the very slow .
He should make a fair offer for the coins and perhaps a little more ,instead of 30 percent profit maybe He could get by with 20%.
Kindness and honesty bring returns to a business ,,thats a fact !
Metalman
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Valued Member
United States
144 Posts |
I don't think I've seen a dealer offer more than about 60% of retail.
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Valued Member
United States
439 Posts |
I think Metalman made a good point in that an honest dealer will probably make out better in the long run as far as having a larger, more loyal, customer base than a dishonest dealer. People would catch on sooner or later and if a dealer hasn't any integrity it will more than likely leave his more knowledgable customers with a bad taste in their mouths. That would seem like good business for anyone who wants to do well in a business for a long time even though it doesn't seem to be practiced much anymore.
Just to play devils advocate for a moment though, many people work very hard gaining knowledge of the hobby. Lets face it, there is a lot to learn and many people work very hard reading, learning to properly grade, etc. If they do the homework why shouldn't they profit from it?
In a perfect world people both scenarios would be dealt with honorably and the customers would be paid accordingly, whether they recognized what they had or not with a decent profit left over for the dealer but where do you draw the line between taking advantage of someone and using your knowledge?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
Hmmm...well while it's not right that the dealers try to screw people over like that, they need to stay in business. When someone goes into a coin shop, they want to get the best price possible, so the dealer has to make some money some how. Also, every single one of us are always on a look out for a "best deal" or "best buy". I think that the coin dealer should offer both of those people some more money than they normally wouldn't have offered if they were just normal coins. That way the dealer is still able to make some money, and the other person gets more money than they normally would have if they took it to another dealer.
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
quote:
How did I rationalize this?
First, you only presume you "took advantage" of the dealer. Since you don't know the price the dealer paid for the coin you can't really know if you "took advantage" of the dealer. Maybe it was the other way around. Second, you probably take some comfort in assuming, as you have a right to, that the seller knows, or ought to know, what he or she is doing. People who sell via auctions on E-bay assume some risk. Maybe one buyer gets a real bargain, while the next buyer to come along will overpay. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1952 Posts |
I would hope that the dealer would be honest with both parties. I'm with Meatalman on this one
"Carma is a B@%*h" and if you give it time to catch up well I'm not Paul Harvey but you know the rest of the story.
Gary
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New Member
 United States
46 Posts |
There is fine line between turning a profit and taking advantage of somebody. If I were to walk into a coin shop and act as if I really know my stuff (when in fact my ego is larger than my coin knowledge), then I am really asking to get duped. There is also something to be said for a person investing their time to understand the hobby. But maybe that time is paid for in the profit they turn. And as always, if someone does not take the time to determine the value of their own property, then they have decided that the cost of their time to investigate the value of their belongings is not worth the potential benefit of determining their value.
I have a solution. Start a business charging a fee to estimate the value of sellers coin collections. That way even a layman knows the value of their coins, and can bargain with a dealer appropriately.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2269 Posts |
Those are interesting scenarios. IMHO no one should be taken advantage of under any circumstances. Unfortunately, it happens. I stopped going to a local dealer because I was taken advantage of. Partly, it was my fault since I should have done my research. Either way, it doesn't make it right, although that experience helped me become a more cautious collector.
Edited by Spider5689
08/05/2007 12:37 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1713 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
"Some do, I guess. But that's their problem. They got the price they asked for, they made their fair profit, so why should they care if someone else comes along and makes a profit themselves?" That sums it up for me. It seems like the first dealer who was selling the pennies was the one to avoid, because he calls cherry picking stealing and is ruining someone's good name. The world doesn't work where other people point out a person's mistake. He wasn't going to say "Hey that dime over there is very rare because it's a DDO. Your selling it for $50, but it's actually worth $200. I'll give you $180 for it." Er, no. |
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Replies: 34 / Views: 3,941 |
Posted 08/04/2007 4:28 pm
