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 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,804 |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
I just watched a story on T.V. about a guy who cuts up dollar notes to make art with. Very nice looking stuff he makes. So is it legal or not? John1  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
One would think that this would be a boon to the gov't, less money around to have to honor and keep track of. But it is still illegal, Quote:
Specifically, this is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code, which says that "whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both." The law is enforced by the Secret Service. |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
So then why is this artist not in jail? They know his name where he lives and that he is doing this for years now  What about people who put coins on train tracks or cut out coins for jewelry? Are these just out dated laws the government does not enforce anymore? Just curious about this stuff. John1 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Well, firstly, do we really want our tax money going into a full enforcement effort where the max. fine is $100 ?
Secondly is the vague legal issue here. The courts have already struck down issues regarding the desecration and burning of the flag, deeming it merely a symbol of freedom and gov't. The burning of the flag is a protected protest against the gov't, not an actually attack.
Since paper money is not actually backed by gold anymore, it becomes merely a symbol of one's trust in the U.S. economy. Legal minds are in disagreement over whether the enforcement of the burning of money in protest and as a derivative, the desecration of bills could withstand the same legal challenges.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1234 Posts |
The teller at my bank said she knew someone that was using FRN's in artwork she mentioned something about a form you could fill out that grants you the right to use 'money' in artwork.
When the government says something is illegal it just means there is a lot of paperwork involved.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1476 Posts |
I thought you could buy cut up notes form Dept of treas By-The-Pound?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1068 Posts |
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I thought you could buy cut up notes form Dept of treas By-The-Pound? I believe you can... The Government made it and they can destroy it... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
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The Government made it and they can destroy it... With the short lifespan of bills, the gov't destroys money all the time. In 2010 alone, the gov't destroyed 2.6 billion dollar bills. The NY Fed destroys 5 million notes daily. The shredded paper used to be sold to recyclers along with defective planchets from the mint. The metal is recycled as any other scrap would be. At one point the shredded bills were sold to enterprising companies that would put it into containers and sell it as 1 million dollars you could put on your shelf. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
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Well, firstly, do we really want our tax money going into a full enforcement effort where the max. fine is $100 ?   , could it be that that particular law was written way back and it has failed to catch up with inflation ?  Quote:
Since paper money is not actually backed by gold anymore, it becomes merely a symbol of one's trust in the U.S. economy. That is a very good point to justify that act  |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
The note issue is a financial liability against the U.S. Treasury.
The U.S. Treasury would LOVE you to damage their notes, to the extent that they cannot be circulated again. They no longer have to honour their value!
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Moderator
Australia
16826 Posts |
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What about people who put coins on train tracks or cut out coins for jewelry? Coins and notes are treated differently under American law. Notes are protected by the above quoted law; coins are not. The laws regarding coins say you can't counterfeit them and cannot fraudulently manipulate them (by, for example, making a cent look like a dime or a 5 cents look like a quarter and then trying to spend it as such). And you cannot place advertisements on them and issue them back out into circulation. But apart from that, coins are fair game. Quote:
Are these just out dated laws the government does not enforce anymore? Just curious about this stuff. The law was last altered in 1994, and it was the addition of the phrase "fined not more than $100" that was part of the things they altered into the law at that time (it previously said simply "fined under this title"). So the $100 fine is not a relic of a bygone age when $100 would buy you a new car, it's a very recent addition to the law. Quote:
So then why is this artist not in jail? They know his name where he lives and that he is doing this for years now. You'll have to ask him. Or maybe ask the feds. He might have one of the "forms" Aslan mentions. Quote:
The teller at my bank said she knew someone that was using FRN's in artwork she mentioned something about a form you could fill out that grants you the right to use 'money' in artwork. Title 12 Section 413 says in part "Federal Reserve notes unfit for circulation shall be canceled, destroyed, and accounted for under procedures prescribed and at locations designated by the Secretary of the Treasury.". So I presume the form grants you a somewhat limited right to become a "designated location" for note destruction. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
997 Posts |
In addition to all this intent has a great deal to do with enforcement. If one intends to defraud others by the destruction or mutilation of currency the "G" is gonna come and get you. If the intent is to further First Amendment rights or create an artistic work with no desire to defraud then they aren't going to bother.
Destruction of a few dozen or hundred bills in the name of art is not going to upset the financial health of the nation or affect the security of the currency. It is going to cost the artist at lease the face value of the notes used.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,804 |
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Posted 06/29/2014 10:53 am
