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New Metal For Pennies And Nickels

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Pillar of the Community

United States
560 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2007  12:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ichirensha to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just read on Coinflation that Legislation has been introduced to change the composition of the Cent and Nickel and possibly tweak the other coinage to save hundreds of millions of dollars a year at the mint because it costs 1.7 cents to make a cent and a dime to make a Nickel!
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Topher's Avatar
Canada
965 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2007  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Topher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Canada has peen making copper-plated and nickel-plated steel coins for several years now. They're just not the same, but they are cheaper to produce.
Valued Member
United States
459 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2007  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Benji to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since when has the US gov't been concerned with saving the tax payers $$$$?
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2007  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, the US Mint is a revenue producer for the US Government- they make several hundred million dollars per year in seniorage. Seniorage is the difference between the actual cost to produce a coin and its face value or selling price in the case of collector issues. True, the cent and nickel are loss leaders but dimes, quarters, halves, and dollars more than make up for it. I believe that the seniorage on a dollar coin is somewhere around 80 cents per coin. If the cent and five cent are switched to new metals, the Mint will just have a higher profit, not a lessened loss.
Valued Member
United States
459 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2007  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Benji to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks BioKem but, what if the $1 coins are not circulated? Would this effect profits?
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Spider5689's Avatar
United States
2269 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2007  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spider5689 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They aren't circulating, but think of how many people are getting them from their banks and putting them aside. The Mint recently conducted a poll, the results were 50% of those polled were saving the Presidential dollars. The mint is making money on every Dollar saved.
Valued Member
United States
101 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  02:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sllyonsjr421 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow I didn't know they were changing the nickel composition. Is there any press release or article outlining the change in more detail? That would be very interesting to look into!

Steve
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greyhav's Avatar
United States
144 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  11:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add greyhav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The legislation is just being proposed, so there's been no decisions yet (I think the mint will be allowed to come up with a suitable composition).

Besides seniorage (which helps the mint directly), whenever money leaves circulation (either in the U.S. by being collected, or by leaving the U.S. altogether), it has the effect of a permanent interest-free loan to the U.S. gov't.
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's impossible to make a steel penny in this day and age for less than one cent. Many of the high quality steels cost more than this just for the metal and then there are high fabrication costs since steel wears dies quickly.

A penny is far too little money to be represented by a coin.

Perhaps they could petition Cogress to restore the value of the penny.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1,2, and 5 Eurocent coins are copper-plated steel although I do not know their production costs.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
It's impossible to make a steel penny in this day and age for less than one cent. Many of the high quality steels cost more than this just for the metal and then there are high fabrication costs since steel wears dies quickly.

Who said anything about high quality steel? You use a cheap low quality steel and plate it. Sure once the plating develops breaks it will rust, but the cent is a throwaway item normally used just a few times and then retired. It doesn't have to last.
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greyhav's Avatar
United States
144 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add greyhav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think they should retire the cent and issue a debased 2 cent piece. Then you can make any value up to 0.99 except for 0.01 and 0.03 without the use of a penny.
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inacoffeebuzz's Avatar
United States
204 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add inacoffeebuzz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Greyhav - plus it would make it easier to put your Two Cents in.
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2007  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even The lowest grade scrap steels are selling for 15c per pound now days and prices are still escalating. Steel production is an exothermic reaction so upward pressure on prices won't be as high as on other base metals but this is still high.

Steel fabrication costs are quite high so even the cheapest rolled steel should run about 25c per pound. By the time it's punched and coated it will easily be 40c/ lb. These are extremely conservative estimates.

A pound of steel, I believe, will make about 130 penny sized coins. So we're in the .3c area just in planchet costs. They'd be lucky to get a quarter million strikes from dies if striking these so coining costs would probably be at least in the 1c area for a conservative total of 1.3 cents.

Frankly this is really all pretty meaningless when you're talking about a rational currency system. Each time a penny is used it costs individuals and companies far more in handling and counting costs than one cent. We lose money on these coins everytime they are used. It would make far more sense to eliminate them than to use them. Even if they sprang forth from the earth and were free to the government, it would be advantageous to simply rebury them.

Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2007  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Steel weighs just slightly more than Zinc (about 1,1 times as much) so a steel cent would also weigh about 2.5 grams (Same weight as what a 1943 steel cent weighed.) so a pound of steel would make 180 cents. Even with a 40 cent a pound material cost that would give a material cost of .2 cents apiece.

I agree that there would be higher coining costs because of shorter die life, but I think it would be about twice your estimate. Softened steel is softer than the coppernickel alloy they use for the five cent pieces and they are getting between 300 and 500 thousand strikes.

I'm not saying that a steel cent would be a long term solution but I think they could be brought in for a cost somewhere in the .7 to .8 cent apiece range. Use of plated aluminum instead of steel would greatly improve on those figures becuse a pound of aluminum, although more expensive (around the same cost as zinc), will produce about 500 cents from a pound of metal.

I also agree that the cent needs to be eliminated though just due to the handling cost in daily commerce where use of the coin exceeds the value of it.
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Spider5689's Avatar
United States
2269 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2007  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spider5689 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two years ago I visited Italy. I only saw two, one cent euros. I made plenty of transactions, but 1 cent coins were rare. I can't imagine why?

Whatever the Italians are doing to reduce the use of the cent, is obviously working. Maybe we should take notice.
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