| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 9,421 |
|
|
Valued Member
Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
100 Posts |
  Thank you.
|
|
|
|
Valued Member
 Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
100 Posts |
Any idea about this one? I am unable to find it in any catalogue, so it is probably a pretty bad forgery? Thanks.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Edited by Petrus
07/22/2014 2:58 pm
|
|
Valued Member
Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
100 Posts |
Thank you very much!
But, what is confusing me is the text under the lion... seems to be pretty differnt than on the example showed on the link. Is that possibly the "correct date" which could vary?
Thanks again!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
I can not read the Amharic text. What I found in Krause : MINT MARKS
A - - " Paris
(a) - - " Paris, privy marks only
Coinage of Menelik II, 1889-1913
NOTE: The first national issue coinage, dated 1887 and
1888 E.E., carried a cornucopia, A, and fasces on the reverse.
Subsequent dates have a torch substituted for the fasces, the A
being dropped. All issues bearing these marks were struck at the
Paris Mint. Coins without mint marks were struck in Addis Ababa.I found a book on this language, I'll try to find the date ብር means : 'birr' or 'money of Ethiopia' or 'silver' https://archive.org/stream/lacldela...p/search/dixThey use several ways to write numerals : numeral or in text. That makes it more difficult. Edited by Petrus
07/22/2014 3:31 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Edited by Petrus
07/22/2014 4:28 pm
|
|
Valued Member
Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
100 Posts |
Thanks again for your help, time and knowledge. I have found a sample with the same marks (exactly) on ebay, sold, with a positive feedback left for the seller. www.ebay.com/itm/331243832287So, I hope to at least one of the (seller/buyer) know what they are doing... |
|
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Edited by Petrus
07/22/2014 4:43 pm
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16810 Posts |
Sorry, filip, but your coin is definitely not genuine. It is a fake. Look at the crosses on top of the crowns, for instance: on genuine coins like the one on NGC linked to by Petrus, they are distinct elaborate Ethiopian crosses. On your coin, they're just collections of disconnected dots. Other details such as the shape of some of the letters are equally wrong, and the denticles on the rim degerate into just sticks pointing out at peculiar angles in some places. I think the one you found on ebay might be fake, too, though the "toning" seems to be obscuring details. If it is a fake, it is not as bad a fake. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Valued Member
Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
100 Posts |
Hi Sap - Thank you for resolving the situation. In fact, I have suspected from the begining that this is not genuine, because all samples than one (which has been sold on ebay) have been looked much different than the one which I have. But... a lot of coins have some special stories... some trial strikes, unissued issues :) ... and always is better to ask on the Foru, where lot of experts surely will know to tell much about them. Thanks again for helping me in demistifying of this coin!! Petrus - thank you very much again for your help and time + knowledge spent on this topic! :) |
|
Valued Member
Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
100 Posts |
Hi Sap, when you have mentioned dots, instead of the real Maltese crosses, I just have found (sold on HA auction) sample with the similar details, listed as a "specimen".   This is still different than the one I have, but it is also pretty different than other "genuines". This one is listed as "1/8" Birr, and certified as a "proof". Edited by filip
07/23/2014 3:19 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Filip, What is the weight and diameter of yours? The writing under the lion looks like the writing on your coin. http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/E...7-A_1/8_birr1 birr diam 40mm 1/2 birr diam 30mm 1/4 birr diam 24mm 1/8 birr diam 20mm But then the hat is different. The beard is more crude, the date numerals should have a line above and below each character. I think Sap is right, and this is a reproduction. Is it magnetic? It should be 1/8 birr. If it is 40 mm the it is a 'chinese' reproduction. In china a lot of fakes and reproductions are made, almost all 40mm. I have some French and british fakes of 40mm. Some are magnetic, others are not. You can have it tested by a jeweler if it is silver. Edited by Petrus
07/23/2014 3:48 pm
|
|
Valued Member
Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
100 Posts |
Hi Petrus. When I have seen this coin for the first time, I supposed that it is from some of the Asian countries, because the monarch on it looks very "oriental". I thought that it is Mongolian, probably because the Asian look of the monarch, and a very unusual alaphabet.
On the original monarch's face is some kind of different face lines, so it looks like more African on it.
So, I suppose that you have a good clue - it is probably Chinese reproduction.
It is exactly 40mm in diametar.
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16810 Posts |
Quote:
Hi Sap, when you have mentioned dots, instead of the real Maltese crosses, I just have found (sold on HA auction) sample with the similar details, listed as a "specimen". Yes, there are types where the cross is made up of dots, but the dots are touching, and in straight lines. The dots on the crosses on your coin are more like stars scattered about the place, disconnected, so it is difficult to even tell for sure whether certain dots are part of the orb or the crosslets. To me, the whole effect just shouted "somebody is copying the design, without realising what the design is supposed to be". It is probably a copy of a copy of a copy, with die details retouched along the way - which explains the curious shifting of detials and editing of the design in numerous subtly wrong ways - such as the details of the face and beard. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
New Member
France
2 Posts |
I know I'm butting in on an 7-year old topic. But then, we're talking about a 125-year old coin !
I have long had 3 original Birrs and 1 of these fake coins. It was sold to me as a fake, and of course it doesn't take a scientist to see it.
Anyhow, I recently have gained access to an x-ray analyser, and this is the analysis of this fake Birr coin :
Cu 63.53%
Zn 22.43%
Ni 13.08%
Ag 0.27%
Mn 0.25%
S 0.19%
Si 0.14%
Pb 0.06%
other 0.05%
so, Nickel Brass, in current parlance, and Nickel Silver in ancient terms.
It's still very well made, which is why I haven't thrown it away.
But of course, original silver Birrs are among the most beautiful coins ever ...
cheers
enkidu
|
|
Moderator
United States
187862 Posts |
We do not mind when something relevant is added to the conversation and that is very interesting!   to the Community! |
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 9,421 |
|
Posted 07/22/2014 2:53 pm
