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 Replies: 17 / Views: 6,275 |
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Valued Member
Czech Republic
56 Posts |
Hi guys! I was hoping you could help me determining the authenticity this Thaler from 1695. The coin is 46 mm and 30,6 g   *** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. *** |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
The coin should technically weight a little less but with the addition of the bezel the weight is about right. No other obvious reason makes me doubt the authenticity. It's a nice high-grade coin too, albeit cleaned.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Such Hungarian coins are found in very fine quality. I think it is real. Leopold I (1657-1705) Krause KM# 214.8; DAV #3264 mintage : 4433.000 Value : http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/...8-duid-81845LEOPOLDUS.D:G:ROM:IMP:S:A:GE:HU:BO:REX Leopoldus dei gratia romanorum imperator semper augustus Germaniae Hungariae Bohemiae rex Leoplod, by the grace of God, everlasting emperor of the Holy Roman empire, king of Germany, Hungary, Bohemia ARCHIDUX.AUS:DUX:BUR:MAR:MOR:CO:TYR: archidux Austriae dux Burgundiae marchio Moraviae comes Tyrolis archduke of Austria, duke of Burgundy, margrave of Moravia and count of Tyrol Mintmark KB : Kremnitz (Hungary) Top pic, after the name Leopoldus : patrona hungariae (patroness of Hungary) between A and GE: coat of arms of Hungary Vienna mint (centershield on the coat of arms) |
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Valued Member
 Czech Republic
56 Posts |
Ok, thank you very much for your input guys!
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
I made a mistake :
mintage : 443.000 !
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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts |
Sorry to say I don't think it's authentic. The circular design elements, like the large circles around Leopold, the small circles around the eagles' heads, and the letters around the edge, are just horrible. Compare the quality to the beautiful engraving on a real example found here http://coinsnumismatics.blogspot.co...-silver.html |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
Roger, that's a completely different coin, from a different mint and designed by a different engraver.
The coin posted here looks perfectly genuine.
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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts |
With all due respect, I remain unconvinced. Here are NGCs images of a Hungarian Thaler from the same year and the same mint... http://ngccoin-production.s3.amazon...e/81845f.jpghttp://ngccoin-production.s3.amazon...e/81845b.jpgI know engraving quality can vary significantly but these differences, particularly on the obverse, seem a bit extreme to me. The circles on the NGC coin are perfect. I don't know whether it's relevant that LEOPOLDVS is spelled differently (U rather than V), but the improper letter spacing and wandering text baseline are telltale signs of modern fakes. On the reverse, the tip of the sword is bent and the sword isn't attached to the center of its handle. I'm not an expert when it comes to Hungarian Thalers so I can't say definitively that it's a fake. But this coin is either fake or the engraver was on vacation and left his drunken apprentice in charge. |
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Valued Member
Czech Republic
56 Posts |
I agree that the design looks a little bit off when I look at similar coins. I am really not sure anymore. I really hope it is genuine, I payed quite a lot for it...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
Definitely the case of the drunken apprentice  I see your concerns, very valid. I did manage to find a PCGS one that matches the inconsistencies with this coin here. The difference in quality between the one you posed and this one is a real testament to the coining process back then. http://auction.sedwickcoins.com/Hun...ab_i19335622Rest easy ms22tq Edited by Numismat
08/05/2014 04:20 am
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Valued Member
Czech Republic
56 Posts |
Thanks a lot for you input Numismat!
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Here are some forgeries: http://www.forgerynetwork.com/asset...qEEpz8M425E=They differ to much with this coin or with other real coins. So I am almost sure this coin is a real one. The dies in that period were made 'manually', of course. For coins from that period several dies were needed. Therefore, it is normal that there are small differences for the same coin. The dies wear, providing also some differences. You can go to a jeweler to test if it is silver. |
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Valued Member
Czech Republic
56 Posts |
Thanks Petrus! I am feeling more secure now it is a genuine coin. What grade would you guys say it is and what do you think it could be worth?
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
The coin will have more value without the pendant-ring. But... can it be removed without damage? If not leave it where it is. On the top picture, left of the little ring I see something that looks like a weld. As you have seen posted by Numismat), a coin like that is sold for US$400 (€299) I think your coin has about the same quality. Your coin has a mintage of 443.000. A similar coin from another year would be a little be more. Furthermor, how many can be found on the market? All factors that make the price. And the most important: what will anyone be prepared to pay for your coin. Here are some prices: http://auction.sedwickcoins.com/Hun...ab_i19335622I think between €250 and €350 (because of the ring). How much did you pay for it? |
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Valued Member
Czech Republic
56 Posts |
Thanks again for a quick reply. The coin is in the mail and I will get it tomorrow or the day after. I am really curious if the ring around the coin comes off or not. What did I pay for this coin? Well, I was not sure if it was real even though I had a good feeling about it, and also the fact that it is mounted as jewellery, I set my limit at 3,900.00 CZK and that is about 141,80 euro and it went for 139 euro.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Here you find some information of the catalog of Lajos Huszar (Ungarn) dated 1979 The left picture has 'abweichungen' (variations)   Edited by Petrus
08/05/2014 12:53 pm
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Replies: 17 / Views: 6,275 |
Posted 08/04/2014 10:07 am
