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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,147 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
I call this segment, "Behind The Listings" In my rambling searches through ebay, I often come upon sellers who do something similar to what I am seeing from absm13. Absm13 has 26 listings right now with similar issues, but I'll use one that explicitly demonstrates my point. Here is a link to the item for sale, an NGC MS-65 1887 Dime with a Buy It Now/Best Offer price of $1,095: http://cgi.ebay.com/1887-Seated-Sil...GC_W0QQitemZ a href= https://www.coincommunity.com/go/link.asp?target=https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/270158478547 target= _blank rel= nofollow 270158478547 /a QQihZ017QQcategoryZ11958QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and here is a link to the exact same coin as it sold on Teletrade on June 3, 2007: http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot....375&lot=1268. Note that the slab number is the same: 311455-016. The Teletrade price was $625. If the seller got his current asking price or near it, it would represent a 50-75% profit. Obviously absm13 has built in some padding for a lower offer, but 75%, in my opinion, is on the wrong side of an attempt to gouge. I could generalize that this listing--as well as absm13's 25 other listings which have similar pedigrees and price points--provides a reason NOT to buy slabbed coins, or not to buy slabbed coins on ebay. But even though I am a crank about the major slabbing services, they are often better than flying blind, and in this case the coin is nice and probably accurately graded, so that's not really the point. In contrast to others who are offended by the aboncoms, SGS, and GEC's and all those other alphabet soup self-slabbers, I find in the listings of absm13 more of a reason to be pessimistic about the coin collecting hobby. If I had the money (just in case he took me up on my offers) I'd offer 10% below what he paid for them just to make a point to him that he's being watched. What absm13's listings mean to me is, first and foremost, do your homework. Once I find a seller with a single listing like absm13's, I completely avoid all of his listings. Forever. But that's just me. I'd be interested in anyone else's take on it, and if you have any similar stories you have found in looking Behind The Listings. |
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Valued Member
United States
459 Posts |
I agree with you on all points but, I would only suggest that you use bold, 126 size font encased with blinking lights around the phrase, "do your homework."
I tend to do the opposite of you. I like to track certain coins on TT and HA then, wait to check the bay and see how may make their way into new holders with a bumped up grade or new skin.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1984 Posts |
If you post them when you see them, you'll have at least one "eager reader."
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I guess I'm a capitalist at heart, but I don't see any fraud here. The only point I am getting is that the seller buys coins in one market & sells them in another for a profit. Is the profit excessive, or is making any profit the problem? If the profit is excessive, at what level is it too much? If I am missing the point please let me know(seriously).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
I do notice that typical BIN prices on ebay are outrageous. And I did run across one example of a guy selling the SAME 1909-S VDB that had just sold on Heritage. He was at least smart enough not to include the PCGS serial number, but I recognized the penny. It was without a doubt the exact same PCGS coin. It sold on Heritage for $2070.00, and his BIN price was $2400.00. So, just to be a poop-head I sent him a PM asking if he would accept $2070.00 for the coin. I guess he didn't pick up on me offering exactly what he paid, so he made a counter offer of $2300.00, claiming that was only $50 over cost. I can't stand it when people lie. Edited by USArmyParatrooper
08/24/2007 6:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
USArmyParatrooper does the HA price include the buyer premium and the S&H costs?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
trdhrdr007-I guess I'm not really eloquent enough to describe exactly what is at the root of my distate in the instance of absm13's sales and sales like this in general.
This certainly isn't about the law. I suppose there are some laws that govern when a markup is excessive in some industries and situations, but this isn't one of them. I would think those laws would apply more in the case of necessities, and no matter how much we like collecting coins, we certainly don't need them.
There's nothing wrong at all with selling for a profit--I'd love to get a 75% (minus expenses, I know) return in a month on coins I buy from Teletrade. In a capitalist society, everyone gets to decide for themselves where the line of propriety is. Being a coin dealer is a tough way to make a living, I realize. But if capitalism is about profit, then it's also about pointing out how that profit is derived, or all my kid's toys would be painted with lead paint. The post was intended to illustrate the need for consumer awareness. If someone is really dying to pay $1095, I certainly can't stop them once they've done it, but I feel that when I can, it's my duty to point out why they might want to think twice. In many cases we can't know exactly what someone paid for a coin, so the exact markup is obscured from our view. Then we have fallbacks: past sales, guides, market awareness, etc.
Not everyone has the same tools or uses them equally, that is part of the Darwinian nature of capitalism.
I guess since this is a Buy It Now 'auction' and not an 'auction auction' I tend to apply more scrutiny. There's nothing saying that absm13 will be able to sell his item for anywhere near what he's asking for it. But in terms of statistics, I would place these listings in the 'outlier' category, and therefore absm13 goes on my 'to be avoided' list. I can see the other side, but I'm not Liberatarian enough to say that I'm OK with any markup at all.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Richard--on HA it's yes to BP, no to S&H.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
quote:
The post was intended to illustrate the need for consumer awareness.
Put in that light I completely understand. I'm a tightwad, so I always try to find the best price. Sometimes I forget that less miserly people might not do price research before they purchase. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
936 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
quote:
USArmyParatrooper does the HA price include the buyer premium and the S&H costs?
The $2070 was with BP, but not shipping. |
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Valued Member
United States
101 Posts |
I guess I see it more from the position of being a buyer/reseller. If I buy something for a good price and turn around and sell it for fair market value and make 10 20 30 even say 75% profit how is that wrong? As long as I am not being deceptive in the listing as far as what the coin is then it shouldn't matter if I have a 5% markup or 500% markup from what I paid as long as I am not cheating the buyer. That's just how I see it since I am a buyer that buys as low as possible and then resells as high as possible and makes a decent living doing it. Thats how business works in my opinion. Can't walk into a Walmart and buy a toaster for the price Walmart paid their supplier or they would go out of business. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
There are honest profits and there are rip-offs. When you buy "for a good price" you're free to attach a price and let the market decide. Buyers like me can also take note of your pricing and communicate with others what we think about it. That's how the market works. If someone asked me about a coin that you had listed at 75% above what you just paid for it on Teletrade, I'd tell them that in my opinion, your price didn't reflect the reality of the market. I would let the facts speak for themselves. Sure they could buy it if they really wanted it. We don't know how much profit Wal-mart makes on each individual item. They might in fact price their toasters at or below their cost to get toaster buyers in the doors. It's called a 'loss leader' and it happens all the time. When we know exactly how much someone paid for a coin and how much they are selling it for, I believe it's our duty to point that out. Buyers can look at absm13's listings and decide for themselves whether they think the seller is honest and fair. But if they know how absm13 generally prices items, perhaps they'll think twice before committing to a purchase. I don't know that I've ever seen a coin you have up for sale, so I can't speak to that issue. If you're on this forum expressing your views, I imagine you are not trying to rip anybody off. But in my opinion, based on what I've seen from absm13, that is not necessarily the case. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
655 Posts |
I hate it when dealers scoop up all the good deals and there's nothing left for the collector that "keeps" rather than buys to resell.
Late last year I got a good deal and bought a coin that I could easily resell for twice what I paid for it. But it's a nice coin and I'm a collector, not a reseller. It's nice to know I could sell it for more if I wanted to, yet I won't be selling it.
For these guys the bubble has to burst sooner or later, as the price of the item reaches it's limit and no one buys. Unfortunately in doing so collectors either pay a premium or are priced out of the market.
Edited by Learjet
09/11/2007 12:36 am
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,147 |
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Posted 08/24/2007 5:45 pm
