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Should Ugly Coins Be Fixed? Questions On Cleaning Coins.

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thryan9's Avatar
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2014  5:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thryan9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have many coins in my collection that have poor eye appeal, uneven toning, or stains of various kinds. Mostly from improper storage. I know there are problems that if not fixed will keep getting worse, and some damage is not repairable. I come from the school of "never clean or try to fix a coin", but sometimes I think it may be necessary. Here are some examples:


Should-Ugly-Coins-Be-Fixed?-Questions-On-Cleaning-Coins.

Should-Ugly-Coins-Be-Fixed?-Questions-On-Cleaning-Coins.
This one looks black, the picture improved it a lot.


Should-Ugly-Coins-Be-Fixed?-Questions-On-Cleaning-Coins.

Should-Ugly-Coins-Be-Fixed?-Questions-On-Cleaning-Coins.

I am interested in opinions and past experiences with trying to improve the appearance of your coins, good and bad. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2014  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Never clean coins.

Now that I've said that....

The decision to work on a coin must be a careful one. Your first coin looks like standard silver toning, something which will never "destroy" a coin except to leave the first few molecules of the surface a silver sulfide black. Yes, it can be removed, but the coin in question is so dark that the solution will harm the coin far more than leaving it alone. So that one doesn't get touched.

The second coin is another situation. It appears to have been exposed to chemicals, and that's likely already damaged the coin. No idea if it's progressive (unlike the final two), but as long as it's not a particularly rare/valuable piece it might bear exploration. Probably ought to.

The last two are verdigris-infested, and that is a progressive reaction which will inevitably eat the coin. It'll take a while, but it will. The Wing & Co coin might be so far gone that once removed you'll see the damage done, but the single spot on the last one might go away and leave nothing but an insignificant patch of color which will be a definite improvement. Learn about Verdi-Care for these, if you want to save them.

Explore the cause of the color, the value of the coin, and the relative ferocity of the necessary conservation process. In each and every case. Some will qualify for conservation, the vast majority will not.

Note, the terms "cleaning" and "conservation" are interchangeable in a sense - it's only the need of the coin which determines which term to use. One will make the coin worse for future generations (you're not a "collector," you're a "temporary caretaker"), and the other will make the coin better for posterity.
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steveo's Avatar
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2014  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steveo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks SsuperDdave, your response was very informative. I'm right there with you as far as never cleaning a coin, however based on your response it does make sense under certain circumstances. Just a side note, when I see pictures of a coin being sold, and the person is holding it ungloved, I cringe and will not bid on that particular coin.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2014  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've never picked up a coin with a glove on. I refuse to surrender any dexterity whatsoever when handling a collectable coin. Of course, I know how to handle coins, too - I'll be the first to slap someone I see holding a Proof in the palm of their hand.
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BlackRabbitCoins's Avatar
United States
113 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2014  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BlackRabbitCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with SsuperDdave, I am a dealer and I know many,many dealers and none of us wear gloves. If you look at the PCGS grading videos on youtube you`ll see that they do not wear gloves when grading coins. Once you learn how to handle a coin properly, gloves can actually be a hindrance.
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Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2014  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
for verdigris use bad-thad's VERDI chem / VERDI gone.

works wonders and cant possibly do any more harm than the green rot that is happening on the last 2. not sure what it will do for the white splotching but it wouldn't hurt to try along with an acetone rinse. I wouldn't touch the top coin.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  01:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
there are only two things to keep in mind when considering cleaning coins -
1. don't do it; and
2. if in any doubt, re-read rule No. 1.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A bit of disagreement. It sort of depends on the coin too. For example if a coin is worth only face value, you have little to loose by experimenting on cleaning. However, contrary to that is, although a coin may not be worth anything to one person, it could be the one needed by someone else.
With those presented I see nothing wrong with an attempt to improve them with a dip in Acetone. Might not do anything but will not do any damage either. If Acetone does nothing, then the next step is to attempt to stop whatever is causing what you see on them. At least placing them in a 2x2 flip will sort of make them less vulnerable to whatever is causing them to continue.
I've done some extensive attempts on cleaning such coins and in the end, basically ruined them. So many methods are posted on the internet on how to clean a coin and possibly posted by someone in an insane asylum. Actually so many people just post stuff that they have no idea what is real and what isn't.
As already stated, just don't clean coins.
Isn't it odd about cleaning. Don't clean a coin. Do clean your cloths. Don't clean old furniture. Do clean your car.
Constantly wash your hands. Don't clean an old Mummy from Egypt.
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Matteproof's Avatar
Korea, Republic Of
1881 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Matteproof to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So many methods are posted on the internet on how to clean a coin and possibly posted by someone in an insane asylum.

This reminds me of this guy over on a Korean numismatic forum who posts results of "Cleaning Experiments" continuosly. So what he does is cleans coins in bizzare ways, and posts a X out of 5 star rating for each method. So far he has cleaned a coin using chicken breast, various types of fruits, a cucumber, soda, sesame oil, mud, his own saliva, etc.
And what's even more shocking is that people call him the Scientist and praise his contribution to the numismatic community by sharing such valuable information of coin cleaning methods. One member even sent him lots of coins for free "to be used for further future experiments," funding more coin cleaning.

Yep, you are right; coin collecting is still a developing hobby in Korea, and the idea of coin cleaning is still being accepted by many collectors, both young and "experienced." Whenever I say that coin cleaning is a bad idea and it should never done, I am always bombarded by doubtful comments of notorious coin-cleaners.

Sad, isn't it?
Edited by Matteproof
09/24/2014 10:59 am
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
you're not a "collector," you're a "temporary caretaker"


This.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Whenever I say that coin cleaning is a bad idea and it should never done, I am always bombarded by doubtful comments of notorious coin-cleaners.


Just inform them that all those coins will have to stay forever in Korea, because nobody else on Earth will buy them.
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tkbslc's Avatar
United States
1158 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tkbslc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I agree with SsuperDdave, I am a dealer and I know many,many dealers and none of us wear gloves. If you look at the PCGS grading videos on youtube you`ll see that they do not wear gloves when grading coins. Once you learn how to handle a coin properly, gloves can actually be a hindrance.


How does an expert properly push a coin into an album or fitted holder without a glove?
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BlackRabbitCoins's Avatar
United States
113 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BlackRabbitCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not trying to hijack this thread or start an argument but any coin of any value should never be "pushed" into anything. A proper fitting album or coin holder will allow the coin to be set gently into it, not pushed. Just touching a coins surface with a soft cotton glove on can cause hairlines scratches. Pushing one into an album with gloves on will prevent fingerprints but will scratch a coin. Just look on youtube at PCGS`s grading and encapsulation videos and you will not see any gloves nor will you see dealers using them at any shows.
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jprine's Avatar
United States
1599 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2014  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jprine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I rarely, almost never try to clean a silver coin (possibly a quick acetone dip in some circumstances) however I frequently use Verdicare on copper coins particularly around mint marks to remove verdigris while searching for varieties etc. Verdicare works great but I encourage you to take ssuperdave's advice and do some research and learn when and how to use it properly.
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thryan9's Avatar
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2014  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thryan9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VerdiCare is on the way, it looks like I have many coins with verdigris that need to be taken care of. I am going to get acetone as well, as I have many coins that were improperly stored. As I progress, I will post some results or failures. This forum has been very informative, I wish I had joined a long time ago.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2014  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How does an expert properly push a coin into an album or fitted holder without a glove?


An expert makes the hole bigger. The non-snarky answer is, with a fingernail around the rim.
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