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 Replies: 16 / Views: 2,303 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
Here is the email I sent and the reply. I'm still a strong supporter of TPGs and some of the my best quality coins are in PCGS holders. But I think I'm just going to avoid dramatically toned coins all together. (In my opinion) too many AT coins are ending up in major TPG holders, so it seems to me there is no safe way. And incidentally it's usually PCGS. My Email quote:
Dear Customer Support,
I am an avid collector of US mint coins and I'm particularly fond of PCGS certified coins. That being said, I am also fond of appealing, toned coins. But as you know it can be very difficult, if not impossible to determine with certainty if such toning was created deliberately. I often run across dramatically toned coins in PCGS holders that are suspect.
My question is.. can a coin be artificially toned (while) it is inside a PCGS holder? My understanding is that certification slabs are not air tight.
Below I'm going to provide a few links to examples. I encourage you to take the time to review them. If this is a legitimate problem I know PCGS will make solving it a top priority. Your reputation is well earned and I know you will do everything possible to sustain it.
In the two links below you will find two different 1909 Lincoln Cents. Both with very dramatic, identical toning. Both from the same seller, and both with back-to-back consecutive PCGS serial numbers. One could argue they were stored in the same album under the same conditions, but they're the same year/mint.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-LINCOLN-PC...1c_W0QQitemZ130142520394QQihZ003QQcategoryZ39456QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-LINCOLN-PC...1c_W0QQitemZ130147042025QQihZ003QQcategoryZ39456QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Now take a look at this next sellers list of PCGS coins. The chances of one individual acquiring so many similarly toned coins is extremely remote.
http://stores.ebay.com/duffydaddy1-...ainbow-coins
Please do not interpret this letter as an attack on your company or its services. I have the highest regard for your expertise and professionalism. I just wanted to bring the issue to light, and perhaps receive some feedback from you. Thank you for your time.
Sean Plunkett
The reply quote:
Mr. Plunkett,
This is a possibility because the holders are not air tight. We have heard of a few methods that usually result in evidence of tampering with the holder. You may send these coins for our guarantee review for $25 per coin plus shipping. If the holder shows evidence of tampering the coin would be removed from our holder. If there is not evidence of tampering but we can see that the toning is artificial then the guarantee would stand and PCGS would have to contact you to come to some sort of agreement.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2269 Posts |
I wonder what kind of agreement PCGS is talking about?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
Just as I suspected! At least PCGS is willing to work with people who have AT coins through that method.
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Forum Dad
 United States
24148 Posts |
I find it interesting that it only took them till the second sentence of the reply to a serious issue...... to ask for money.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Money is what their service is all about. I still haven't parted with a single dollar to a TPG and probably never will...and I've been a serious numismatist for nearly three decades. I don't mind paying the right price for a coin in a holder, but feeding the TPG monster is out of my realm of possibilities. |
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Pillar of the Community
Luxembourg
588 Posts |
If I get them right: you still have to pay for their guarantee review even if they should find out there is something wrong with the coin?
Some time ago I found in a traders list a French 2 francs 1846A in a NGC holder graded MA64 for 350$. Price would be very OK for such a coin, even if it would be, as usual, over graded.
But the holder says 5 francs which relatives the price and the coin is a 2 francs coin from 1921 ! worth around 20$.
What does the guarantee do in such cases?
If they happen to do such obvious mistakes how often do they exchange identical coins with different grades when slabbing?
How is it possible a trader puts such a coin on his list instead of claiming their guarantee?
I have the link to the coin but am not sure if I can post it here?
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Valued Member
United States
144 Posts |
What they are talking about is the "G" in NGC, and PCGS has one too (just not in the name) - guarantee. I'm not trying to promote them, but these two companies are more than just graders. If they determine that the coin was artificially toned prior to grading, or corrodes in the slab, or is counterfeit - they may buy it from you at current market rates.
From PCGS:
"...if the coin is found to be misattributed, non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value for the coin in question at the originally assigned grade, or at the owner of the coin's option, the difference between the current market value for the coin in question at the newly established grade and the current market value of the coin in question at the grade originally assigned. PCGS will also refund the regrading fee and postage and insurance costs incurred by the coin owner in sending the coin to PCGS..."
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2540 Posts |
This is really baloney.
PCGS is charging you to examine their own coins?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2269 Posts |
Oh, they will be glad to take a look at the coin in question, all you have to do is fork over more money. What a deal, where do I sign up?  Edited by Spider5689
08/28/2007 5:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2540 Posts |
Oh, Oh, lets spend some more money and waste it with them. Or, you can just go to a large show (like the ANA that was just in Milwaukee) and they'll do it for free. Although the cost of the airfare may outweigh the savings. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Treashunt, Spider5689, read the last part of the PCGS guarantee posted by Greyhav. If you send it in for review, yes you pay to have it reinspected. But if it turns out they erred the first time around the fees you paid, plus postage and insurance are refunded. If they were RIGHT the first time then you do pay for the re-inspection. quote:
Some time ago I found in a traders list a French 2 francs 1846A in a NGC holder graded MA64 for 350$. Price would be very OK for such a coin, even if it would be, as usual, over graded.
But the holder says 5 francs which relatives the price and the coin is a 2 francs coin from 1921 ! worth around 20$.
What does the guarantee do in such cases?
That they would call a "mechanical error" and their grading/authentication guarantee would not apply. They would just re-holder it in the correct holder. No compensation. quote:
How is it possible a trader puts such a coin on his list instead of claiming their guarantee?
Same way a lot of collectors buy way overgraded or misidentified coins that are in slabs. They don't bother examining the coin, but just put their faith in what is printed on the label. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
717 Posts |
quote:
This is really baloney.
PCGS is charging you to examine their own coins?
quote:
Oh, Oh, lets spend some more money and waste it with them
quote:
Oh, they will be glad to take a look at the coin in question, all you have to do is fork over more money. What a deal, where do I sign up?
I've had two occasions where I had to send Presidential dollar coins back to ICG to be re-slabbed. One had a double mint error & they only caught the single error on their first inspection. The second time, I requested that they re-position the inside holder which was covering a part of the edge lettering I wanted to show. Both times I was able to call & speak to a rep, got the OK to re-submit, checked off the box for "Quality Control" on the submission form & they were done for FREE!GO ICG! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
quote:
I've had two occasions where I had to send Presidential dollar coins back to ICG to be re-slabbed. One had a double mint error & they only caught the single error on their first inspection. The second time, I requested that they re-position the inside holder which was covering a part of the edge lettering I wanted to show.
Both times I was able to call & speak to a rep, got the OK to re-submit, checked off the box for "Quality Control" on the submission form & they were done for FREE!
Yechi, Info like this needs it's own thread in my opinion!! Unless of course it is somewhere else and I just haven't gotten there yet. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
717 Posts |
What I posted was in response to "PCGS is charging you to examine their own coins" & similar comments. I was pointing out that ICG considers these requests for re-inspection "Quality Control" issues & re-inspects & re-slabs for free.
Not sure why you felt "Info like this needs it's own thread in my opinion!"
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
I put that in there because it's a testament of how customers should be treated by a TPG. Problem is, I think the top two get so many bulk submissions from people and/or companies, they could care less about the individual collector trying to create a collection. I just think it's good info for people to be aware of. Not sure how you interpreted my post and if it was taken out of context, but my thoughts were only that this should be made common knowledge to all of those on the forum, and not buried in a post where most probably wouldn't look, as I think it is a great service they are providing. I think Susan and Uncle Mike are already using them quite a bit. |
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Pillar of the Community
Luxembourg
588 Posts |
quote:
That they would call a "mechanical error" and their grading/authentication guarantee would not apply. They would just re-holder it in the correct holder. No compensation.
Ok putting a coin of a different type, denomination and different year than the label into a slab is very obvious but if this happens, it is not impossible to find a VF20 coin in an MS-something slab, type, year and mint mark matching. Would they also be hiding behind a "mechanical error"? |
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,303 |
Posted 08/27/2007 10:27 pm
