Is CAC Losing Its Appeal?

I've seen some CAC approved coins that I wouldn't own. However, those coins are relatively few from my experience.

The following is a July 2014 post from "roadrunner" (from another coin forum) that I believe is useful for context as to the OPs observation that perhaps CAC is stickering too many coins. While I don't have the time in the hobby that roadrunner has had, his observations ring true to me:

"Overall sticker rate might be "about" 40% but it differs wildly between series and grades. If one is trying to build a near finest known collection of the rarest coins you're sticker rate might not be anywhere near close to the 90% some people report here. If one is very fussy about gem common date Morgans and Walkers I suppose a 95% sticker rate would be quite achievable."

"But what if you collect rare date bust, seated and barber like Gene Gardner did? His overall rate while chasing some of the rarest coins out there was 55%. He couldn't afford to pass on a coin that was probably finest known but maybe low end quality for the assigned holder grade. 55% imo is a very high rate for such a rare and comprehensive collection. Compare that to the Dick Osburn collection of half dollars that sold in 2011 where the overall sticker rate was 19%."

"The type of holder makes a difference too imo. CAC may say that they only evaluate the coin but the holder is part of the liquidity and value of that coin. The sticker rate for NGC vs. PCGS coins is much lower...a fact borne out by both the Gardner and Osburn collections above (PCGS sticker rates in those sets were 69% and 38% respectively)."

"If you're into gem classic gold coins the stickering rate are some of the lowest seen in all of numismatics. I'd venture that gem gold stickers at well under a 20% rate. MS65 Saints are probably close to 5-10%. I saw one batch of 125 MS65 Saints go through CAC with only a 6% sticker rate. That's probably typical. So there's a reason why a MS65 stickered saint brings about the same money as a non-stickered MS66....it's the 6% sticker rate."

"On the flip side I'd bet that MS65 Morgans have a pretty high stickering rate, maybe as high as 50-60%. The harder and tougher the coin you collect the less likely they get stickered because the risk of being just a hair off will cost big money."

"CAC is in this game to have a pool of good coins to buy from. They will be much tougher on ensuring a MS65 bust half is all there vs. say a MS65 1881-s Morgan dollar. I know I would. And it certainly helps if that CBH is already in clear plastic. For the MS65 Morgan it almost doesn't matter what plastic it's in as they trade sight-unseen."

"What's the stickering rate? It depends. It could be anywhere from 0% to 60% (one example of 0% applies to regular issue MS68 Saints from 1907-1933. There are over 100 such coins graded MS68 with none yet stickered. Most of those are Wells Fargo 1908 NM coins). Clearly, CAC is fussy when it comes to an MS68 Saint that is not a high relief. Regardless, I'm sort of stunned that not a single 68 coin so far is worthy of a sticker."

I'm sure they're in the black, but consider the value per hour of a high-level dealer. They're not using rookies on this. Everyone involved would make a lot more money with that time if CAC weren't necessary.

You know, this all brings to mind a question. I'm sure CAC keeps records of the serial numbers they reject, and why. I wonder how many cleaned/altered/counterfeit coins they run into, and what they do about it. A lot of their submissions are consignments, somebody else's coin.

Try "stickering the wrong coins in excess" and losing credibility as a result.

You know what separates an issue within an issue at the same or near the same grade levels? Variety attribution due to die marriage and other minting nuances I.e., clashing, cracking, cudding etc...

Do some percentage of coins look better than their counterparts? Sure they do. Does an experienced collector need to be told via a little green holographic sticker which ones those are? If yes than remove "experienced" from the description.

Is CAC profitable? I'm sure they're trying to be and even more so, when will they exhaust their market and what moves will they make to maintain profitability when that point in time comes?

It's a sticky situation. No pun intended.

I share your concern. Like I said early on, I've seen dogs with beans (they look funny with that thing balanced on their forehead). I just rely on the fact that they've so much to lose, to keep that minimized.

That begs the question....why doesn't CAC just, given their claim of being better at grading, just put coins in their own unique slab? why the sticker? why not operate as another independent TPG that puts raw coins in slabs? Seems to me that they just don't want to take on the logistical aspect of putting coins in plastic and let the other TPGs do the leg work. No need for sonic welders, inventory of slabs, all the various sizes to fit different coins, etc....As a business it is a brilliant strategy to reduce your overhead by only having to pay your graders and a few rolls of cute green stickers. Makes for a much better ROI.

That is the best explanation of what CAC does. Now it all makes sense to me - I may actually stop making fun of the green beanies.

I probably spend $500 - $750 on my average slabbed coin nowadays for my Seated dime Collection. I do not use a single dedicated dealer. I scour the web. I do not consider myself different when compared to a counterpart that might spend 50% more than my range on average.

I want to venture a guess that the person David describes is not into the "hunt" as much as they are into the investment < no intent on minimizing said persons numismatic aspirations or stature)

I have made a dozen purchases in the past year in that avg. per coin range (500-750) and have done it through no less than 5 different national coin outlets who have a web presence including major auction houses and of course the bay. Any CAC coins I have purchased happened to have had the bean as my intention was not to just grab those.

Enough about me

I see validity in David's talking points when it comes to numismatic treasures. However, on the other side of that coin (man my puns are well timed ) and as has already been beaten to death in this debate, I will be hard to convince that CAC is not steering towards a self-serving profitability interest and that the market will not begin to see more and more green bean competency questioning as it currently questions TPG grading efforts.

Good conversation. Since I won't be winning any mid-terms in 25 days I'll take solace in my being one tick ahead of last place in my own poll.