Cursed 1813 Potosi 8 Reale, May Be A Counterfeit?

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 2,152
odentheviking Valued Member United States 425 Posts	Posted 10/11/2014 7:03 pm I posted ref over 120 Potosi Mint 8 Reales I picked up in one set/batch. As I was going through them I noticed something odd with a 1813. Let me see if I can explain this...... It looks like the silver blank was pressed by the Shield side of a 8 Reale coin, then it was minted over that on the Portrait side. It weighs in at 26.61 Grams, it rings silver,same size as another 1813 I have, have not done a SG test yet. The edge seems to be very tight, meaning the circles and rectangles are very close and squaring off the circles. I can find no stop/start point on the edge, I know there should be two, but with all the damage I am not seeing anything in the pattern. There does seem to be one small cut in the edge,(see picture). All these coins have heavy ware on the Portrait side from being mounted to a belt. I'll let the pictures do the talking. http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/016.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/015.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/014.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/013.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/012.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/027.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/025.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/024.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/022.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/023.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/021.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/020.jpg http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/...take/017.jpg Thanks for looking! Paul. Report this Post to the Staff

Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 10/12/2014 02:01 am It's a simple overstrike, nothing cursed about it. Report this Post to the Staff
jfransch Pillar of the Community United States 1801 Posts	Posted 10/12/2014 3:42 pm Actually looks more like a clashed die than an over strike. Report this Post to the Staff
coinworldtv Pillar of the Community Austria 566 Posts	Posted 10/12/2014 6:02 pm Die-clash indeed, a 100% authentic coin. Report this Post to the Staff
odentheviking Valued Member United States 425 Posts	Posted 10/12/2014 7:51 pm Your right, at first I thought it was an overstrike. But then I noticed the image is a mirror and concave. So how does this happen? The only thing I can think of is a coin was struck, but gets stuck in the upper dye, the operator does not notice and puts in another blank. The blank is then struck lightly by the other coin and the lower dye. To correct this the operator pops out the first coin and re-strikes the blank,( that now has this "die clash"). What does this do for the value? Report this Post to the Staff
odentheviking Valued Member United States 425 Posts	Posted 10/21/2014 8:21 pm OK, so I looked up die clash and that makes sense. But I still have the question " is this a Boston style counterfeit?". I know that the edge is badly damaged, but it still looks like the Boston style edge pattern. The other question is, are there any known Boston forgeries with the Potosi Mint mark? Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 10/26/2014 12:47 pm Yes - see page 139 in the GNL Book showing the dentils that end in the incorrect place as seen above HISPAN in your piece suggesting transfer dies - Class 2 Forgery. Still a KOOL die clashed pieces and not a flip over double strike or anything else IMO. Gurney to eventually confirm. Wait two weeks and re-post. He is traveling in the SW USA on business. JPL Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 11/04/2014 12:30 am There are a few Potosi Class 2 coins that tend to be rather early (ca 1830) and show a slightly low SG (alloy about 850 fine) but the later types especially the US made types seem to all be 900 fine issues. There is a valid reason for the difference - in 1830 the premium on Carolus dollars was lower and mints other than Mexico City appear. However, in this case there are three things working against the coin being a Class 2. First the heavy clash combined with a very badly worn die. Even brand new the coin was less than pristine which was what the Chinese traders wanted. Second the mint was NOT Mexico City - this is a limiting factor except for VERY early. Thirdly and the most serious problem - the coin is a Ferdinand VII. The Chinese did not like the thin man with the thin ribbons - there was NO PREMIUM on these coins so therefore no reason to make them. Report this Post to the Staff
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