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Ofec Country?

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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  8:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
So, does anyone include the Nation of Celestial Space (Celestia) in their OFEC collection?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...estial_Space

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Nation...em5413b21125

edited to correct spelling
Edited by chequer
11/10/2014 8:30 pm
New Member
westgawolf's Avatar
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westgawolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They raised the flag on TV and at the UN! Sounds like an official country to me. Cool coin too with a neat history.
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Russian Federation
5174 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  06:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the Vatican to Winterfell scale of country realness listed in this post, this falls somewhere between Redonda and Vilenjak (actually, that scale should have a lot more entries in that particular gap; can't think of too many, but Redonda > Celestia > Atlantium > Molossia > Westarctica > Vilenjak should be about right).

I personally wouldn't include anything right of Alderney on that scale in any OFEC "set" as in something that is supposed to be eventually assembled fully, but might consider them to inflate the count of "countries I have". Not that I currently have any such coins (of which most are very rare).
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  07:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check out
JOEL ANDERSON's site for coins of nearly non existant countries.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16832 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  08:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I owned a Celestial coin, I would file it under "C" in my world coin collection. I would not, however, consider it a "real country" and therefore not include it in my list as published on the thread january1may linked to.

To qualify as a "real country" in my mind, I require at least two of the following three criteria to be unambiguously met:

1 - a formal claim of independence or existence with respect to a specific defined territory, preferably recognized by at least some other recognized countries;

2 - a significant "native" population within the claimed territory who recognize the claim of independence or existence, either formally or de-facto (eg by paying taxes or receiving government services);

3 - a demonstration of continuous and unchallenged control over the claimed territory.

The Confederate States met all three criteria, therefore qualified as a "country" for the period of its existence.

Transnistria and Somaliland meet all three criteria, therefore likewise qualify.

Islamic State meets all three criteria, though #3 is currently in doubt and the extent of the "claimed territory" is also somewhat dubious, but if they were to get around to making coins, they likewise would qualify. Not that I would want to buy one.

Taiwan fails #1 by refusing to declare independence (though it nevertheless has some international recognition) but meets #2 and #3, so likewise qualifies.

South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands fails #2, having zero permanent population, but meets #1 and #3, so therefore qualifies.

Hutt River and Sealand meet #1, don't quite pass #2 (essentially lacking a "local" population) and are ambiguous on #3 (as the legitimate owning government simply hasn't tried reasserting control to any great extent). In my judgement they do not qualify.

Celestia met #1 (barely; no other nation recognizes it). However, it radically failed both #2 (it had zero "native" population) and #3 (it singularly failed to prevent incursions by military and civilian units from other countries into it's "territory" and failed to prevent the ratification by all spacefaring nations of the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 which declared Celestia's "territory" to be unclaimable). Therefore it was clearly not a "real country".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5174 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if you would recognize the Republic of Crimea as a country, and if so whether you would try (or advice an OFEC collector to try) to find a coin of that "country" (there are some, though they are unofficial fantasies, and obviously issued well after the fact).

I also note that, according to your definitions, Aruba and Jersey are not countries either.
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Arkie's Avatar
United States
2637 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Where does Nagorno Karabakh fall in this discussion? Does it actually claim independence from Armenia? Is it the equivalent of a Channel Island?


Ofec-Country?

Ofec-Country?
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nagorno-Karabakh actually declared independence from Azerbaijan, because it's got an Armenian majority. They fought a war over it so it's fairly serious business...
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Arkie's Avatar
United States
2637 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2014  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin commemorates one of the heroes (born in California, died in Nagorno Karabach) in the war.
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