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1960 P Small Date

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scurry64's Avatar
United States
900 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  9:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add scurry64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
1960-P-Small-Date
1960-P-Small-Date
Edited by scurry64
11/10/2014 10:00 pm
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Rackster's Avatar
United States
4809 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2014  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd love to find one in this condition CRHing. I'm no pro but I'd grade this AU for the light wear on the cheeks and the steps. A few other circulation type digs, but a nice specimen!
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mcshilling's Avatar
Canada
9159 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going MS63R
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Rollsearcher37's Avatar
United States
1295 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rollsearcher37 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-63 RD
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Rackster's Avatar
United States
4809 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  09:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I knew that folks would rate this MS but I don't understand why. I'm sure that I conservatively establish grades for my own collection and while I can appreciate the luster and sharpness of the devices on this coin, to what degree do the scuffs, dings, and scratches affect the grade? Thanks.
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scurry64's Avatar
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900 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scurry64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
to what degree do the scuffs, dings, and scratches affect the grade?


For an uncirculated coin, I always start with a grade of MS70, then deducted 1 "point" for each significant scuff, ding, and scratch, etc. Since grading is an opinion and not a science, reasonable people can disagree on what is significant. For example, I deducted 5 points from the obverse of this coin (contact marks, small carbon spots and partial finger print) and 3 points from the reverse (contact marks, weak strike and carbon spot). I would have graded this coin MS62.

These are normal contact marks and carbons spots (even a partial finger print) that appear on coins that have never been circulated. I don't consider them to be wear. A coin has to be worn, in my opinion, to lose the MS designation.

I have it on good authority that this coin, and the 49 others that came in roll I purchased, were taken from a mint sewn bag. Coins stored in this condition usually exhibit a number of contact marks, some carbon spots, toning and, occasionally, a finger print.

In any event, I appreciate your opinion and I'm just offering my one cent.
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biokemist6's Avatar
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12437 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I knew that folks would rate this MS but I don't understand why.

Copper is easy to figure out due to the reactive surfaces. If a copper coin has been handled enough to wear down to AU58, then the patina will also have been altered enough to warrant a Red-Brown designation at best. Of course, uncirculated copper can also be Red-Brown or Brown but if a copper coin has full Red color, such as the OP's coin, then it is safe to assume that it is uncirculated.
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BadThad's Avatar
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19943 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
64RD, although I can't see the luster.

Generally the TPGs add a point to these when the imperfections are similar as compared to wheats.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19943 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I knew that folks would rate this MS but I don't understand why. I'm sure that I conservatively establish grades for my own collection and while I can appreciate the luster and sharpness of the devices on this coin, to what degree do the scuffs, dings, and scratches affect the grade? Thanks.


Because there is no trace of wear on the devices. These wear similar to wheat cents, i.e. cheek, jaw, lapel, on the obverse. Although you need to be careful since these are also high points on the design, they tend to not be fully struck.

On the reverse, the cornice is the main place to detect wear, and again, you have to careful not to confuse a poorly struck area with wear. Also, the little "pots" at the ends of the steps show wear easily. This coin exhibits the classic LMC poorly stuck area in the middle of the memorial and along the steps. However, if you look at the ends of the cornice, you can clearly see they are not worn.

The surface hits play into the grade but do not necessarily indicate wear. All coins tend to have a hard life once they leave the coining machine. They slide down a ramp with thousands of other coins and fall into giant bags. Those are then transported all over creation and usually broken down into rolls for use in commerce.

One of the top ways to detect wear on ANY coin is to closely examine the luster. Circulation tends to dull and break the luster in spots. Also, don't ignore the rims. On coins where it's tough to tell (AU-58) you can sometimes pickup clues by looking for wear.
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scurry64's Avatar
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900 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scurry64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can't see the luster.

Thad, can you post a pic of a Lincoln Cent that exhibits acceptable luster? I've seen you make this comment on a couple of occasions and it makes me wonder if I don't know what I don't know. Thanks.
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Rackster's Avatar
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4809 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2014  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Folks - thank you for the detailed explanations. I've been grading my finds too hard it seems. When I find a specimen like Scurry's CRHing, I may be predispositioned to classify it as a circulated coin giving it an at best, AU58(?) rating. BU never really enters my mind on a circulation find. Currently I'm looking through about $30 of copper (a dump) and there are a number of interesting specimens, some bright (with spots and uneven toning) and some full brown. Details look awesome on a few browns to the extent I'm having a hard time tossing them back. It appears who ever dumped the hoard had these a very long time as circulation wear on many are minor in nature. Many only seem to have contact marks. So as I push through the balance, I'll have to keep the thoughts posted here in mind. Thanks again!
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 11/11/2014  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Notice the cartwheel spokes 2 & 8 O'clock. When this coin is tilted the spokes move around the central "hub" just like a wheel. Watch the spokes carefully and you can spot breaks in the luster.

1960-P-Small-Date
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 11/11/2014  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another example, you can easily tell that this is a very lusterous coin:

1960-P-Small-Date
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scurry64's Avatar
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900 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2014  07:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scurry64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Notice the cartwheel spokes 2 & 8 O'clock.


Quote:
Here's another example, you can easily tell that this is a very lusterous coin:


I see it. It's obvious this is missing from my photography. I suspect it is a matter of lighting & c.

Thanks.
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