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E-Bay Order Cancelled Because I Live In Minnesota

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packrat1's Avatar
United States
185 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2014  02:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add packrat1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there someone one here you could get from another state to get the coins you want from ebay? They pay for & receive the coins & then you pay them for the coins & shipping & they send you the coins.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188660 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2014  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It sounds like Minnesota just wants to end coin collecting in that state.
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The_Duke's Avatar
United States
1745 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2014  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The_Duke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After the last elections, the Republicans have regained control of the house. This might affect things. I sent an email to my Rep for his take.
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HarryWells's Avatar
United States
103 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2014  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HarryWells to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been on a hiatis from collecting since this spring. I went to a coin show a couple weeks ago here in the Twin Cities and was surprised to see only five or six tables. I thought that it was probably due to the holidays, but after doing some research last night I now think it was the law.

I found some extensive posts on the Collector's Universe boards about how a state official showed up at the first coin show after the law went into effect checking for licenses. I also read that the state obtained a list of dealers who have appeared at shows and started sending out warning letters. It sounds ilke they are really cracking down on the coin shows here in Minnesota.

There is also a post in here about a guy who went to a pawn shop looking for coins and was told by the owner he does not sell them anymore because the licensing requirements are too strict. The pawn shop is a licensed firearms dealer. In other words it is easier to get a license to sell firearms in Minnesota than it is to sell coins.

There is also a discussion from one of the local coin dealers who was involved in lobbying against the law before it was passed who says the lawmakers and people in the attorney general's office he talked to, just were not interest in listing to anything the small coin dealers had to say.

Some of the large coin dealers in the state were pushing for the law. I suspect the idea was to drive out the small dealers and out of state dealers and basically corner the market here in Minnesota. One of them said in a newspaper article that if a coin dealer can't afford the surety bond they shouldn't be selling coins. (The required surety bond is between $25,000 and $200,000 depending on the size of the business.)

Sorry to run on so long, but this situation has me very angry. Here are the links for the forums. They are long, but very interesting reading and some good details from people inside the industry.


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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2014  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Someway, somehow this law sounds like a gross violation of the interstate commerce clause which I believe that this would be a federal violation on Minnesota's part.

I pointed out the same thing back when they passed the law. The state is trying to regulate interstate commerce which they can not do. Interstate commerce is under Federal jurisdiction. If the state could do this they could also require every out of state business to collect and remit MN sales tax for all sales to MN residents.


Quote:
$ 25,000 bond holy cow!

That is the MINIMUM bond. The more business you do with MN residents the higher the bond.
Edited by Conder101
11/21/2014 11:21 am
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Bryan78's Avatar
United States
1068 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2014  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could an individual that does not have a shop sell you a coin from their personal collection?
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Bryan78's Avatar
United States
1068 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2014  05:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could someone from Minnesota PLEASE answer this question....

Could any individual sell a coin to another individual without breaking the law?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2014  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you meet the conditions already listed in this thread regarding dealership?
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Bryan78's Avatar
United States
1068 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2014  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Do you meet the conditions already listed in this thread regarding dealership?


No but it doesn't answer my question...

From what I interpret of the law, it is pretty easy to get around it...

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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2014  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My interpretation of the whole thing is that it is essentially pointless, and unless you are a major out of state firm or an organization who does buying trips in that area, there is no practicality to following this...

It obviously crushes small dealers within the state, but I see no impact on smaller out of state dealers because there is no practical way of enforcement
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19952 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2014  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that's a crazy law! Another example of how "big government" overreach does more harm than good.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  05:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Could an individual that does not have a shop sell you a coin from their personal collection?

Yes, unless the coin is worth more then $5K. The law only covers those that buy or sell more than $5k a year to MN residents. And if I was an out of state dealer I would just ignore it, but I wouldn't set up at any shows in MN.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  05:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
when I studied law here in Sunny Australia, many years ago, one of the interesting questions that sometimes arises in Contract Law, is where a contract comes into existence.
Mail, telegraph, telephone, and the internet have all required their own considerations.
But I can see a good argument that you, responding to an advert on ebay, are creating a contract at his location, rather than at yours; and thus the transaction is not governed by MN law.

But, even if I am correct, you are a coin-collector, not a martyr seeking to litigate the finer points of contract &/or constitutional law.
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Bryan78's Avatar
United States
1068 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Yes, unless the coin is worth more then $5K. The law only covers those that buy or sell more than $5k a year to MN residents. And if I was an out of state dealer I would just ignore it, but I wouldn't set up at any shows in MN.


Ok great.... All one would have to do is buy the coin from their own shop and sell it as a private transfer to reimburse themselves for the sale...
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jimbucks's Avatar
United States
4692 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The next thing you know, the state will ban lutefisk. That may be a good thing. For those of you who don't know what that is, you are really missing out.
Edited by jimbucks
11/23/2014 09:25 am
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