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E-Bay Order Cancelled Because I Live In Minnesota

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Kefiroth's Avatar
United States
1431 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kefiroth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Whichever legislators proposed and passed that bill ought to be recalled/voted out ASAP.
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8518 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  11:03 am  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Big fish eating the little fish. No mo competition.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
look the stated purpose behind the law is actually not bad its just a stupid implementation. The law was designed to protect Minnesota residents against Minnesota boiler rooms selling garbage ['bullion'] for 10 times what it's worth. The late night phone call, "have you considered putting a portion of your assets into silver as a protection against the end of the world?"

And yes with that kind of protection the big dealers were behind it because they figured they were chasing the loons out of the business that they wanted to be in.

Then the law uses the legal principle of Nexus to include not only Minnesota companies but companies that have a business presence in Minnesota.

but wait there's more - the stuff that these lunatics are selling isn't really silver so if we regulate bullion we're not actually regulating them so let's make sure that anything that even has the smallest amount of silver in it is regulated.

And wait there's more let's call it coin show a nexus afterall you're physically in our jurisdiction.

So now through a combination of law written by people who really don't understand what they're regulating and regulations written by people who really don't understand what they're regulating... We arrived at our present drama.


But there is a very simple solution: we should pass a law that allows laws to be written only by people with first hand knowledge of what the law covers.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2014  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is an expression I'm known to use, utterly inappropriate for CCF, involving slamming something in a door. That's pretty much what the Minnesota Legislature did here.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2014  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Then the law uses the legal principle of Nexus to include not only Minnesota companies but companies that have a business presence in Minnesota.

problem is it DOESN'T use Nexus. If you are a company that has no physical presence in the state, and you don't set up at shows in the state, but you buy or sell by mail order over $5,000 a year to MN residents they try to apply this law to you.
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ODatSilver's Avatar
United States
59 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2014  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ODatSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thats messed up
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Bryan78's Avatar
United States
1068 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2014  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
problem is it DOESN'T use Nexus. If you are a company that has no physical presence in the state, and you don't set up at shows in the state, but you buy or sell by mail order over $5,000 a year to MN residents they try to apply this law to you.


They can try all they want... The problem is is that they can't enforce it without running afoul of the interstate commerce clause...

Problem with laws like these is that they are feel good laws and will do nothing to address the problem... Just curious what motivation did the State Rep. and State Sen. who wrote this law benefited from it... You should contact your Federal Rep.'s about this law and see what they have to say...

Or you MN collectors could ban together and hire an attorney to fight the law...
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XavierOfGreen's Avatar
United States
2589 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2014  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add XavierOfGreen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Time to put my legal hat on. It is not illegal to ship coins into Minnesota without adhering to this draconian law.
As others have said, the interstate commerce clause comes into play here. Under the constitutional doctrine of the dormant commerce clause as adopted by the supreme court, states cannot enact laws which discriminate against commerce originating in other states. So long as it can be proven that this law hurts out of state dealers at a greater rate than in state dealers, that the harm caused to the out of state dealers is disproportionate to the benefit the citizenry derive from the law, and that the same benefit could have been retrieved through less draconian means, it is unconstitutional.

I live in New Jersey and sell enough coins per year to fall under the scope of this law, but I am willing to sell to anyone in Minnesota without complying with this unconstitutional law. I actually think it will drive business to smaller out of state online dealers, because like others have stated its virtually unenforceable in regards to online purchases.
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coinlover168's Avatar
United States
506 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2014  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinlover168 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The problem is is that they can't enforce it without running afoul of the interstate commerce clause...

This should be brought to a district court. This law is unconstitutional and should be repealed. Although, the feds probably have more "important" matters to address before this "unimportant" case.
Valued Member
United States
337 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2014  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Henry M Smith to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This appears to defy the interstate commerce law. We had a train blocking traffic regularly, so the local government wrote a law to ticket trains if they blocked an intersection for over 5 minutes. The feds said that violated interstate commerce, and the law was discarded. Seems to be a similar thing here. How does a state regulate interstate commerce?
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2014  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From the land of Franken, shock and surprise there. SMDH
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1325 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2014  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shadz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like it would be easier to sell guns in Minni than coins. So If I were to put a 1967 Kennedy half on ebay I would have to pay 25 grand bond to be able to accept a seller from Minnesota? For a stupid half dollar?

Was Breaking Bad taking place in Minnesota because someone was on some real strong drugs when they thought that law through!
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2014  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One coin? No. $5,000 in the course of a year... Yes.

http://mn.gov/commerce/licensees/bu...truction.jsp

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Debrajc's Avatar
United States
4211 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2014  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Debrajc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Harry...Nothing about this new law is "fair" at all. If I were you, and my Mother lived in another state...I would log into my Paypal account and add a new address with both yours and her name / address. If you add it WHILE YOU ARE LOGGED INTO YOUR OWN PAYPAL ACCOUNT it should show up as a confirmed address. At least mine did when I did it that way. Then I would send mom some pre adressed pre stamped / priority / regular envelopes and then have her mail me my packages.....Of course I am not you and not suggesting this is what you should do.
Edited by Debrajc
12/01/2014 8:42 pm
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