| Author |
 Replies: 65 / Views: 7,438 |
|
|
|
Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I asked why there are coins that show more wear on one side than the other.
The answer I received was that the coin most likely sat in a drawer for a long period of time and as the drawer was opened and closed, it wore down the one side.
Dies do not always stay paired for their entire lives. Cracks happen. Sometimes a new die gets paired with a very old one, leading to strikes which look as if they're already worn on one face. This is exacerbated by the freshness of the other face - makes the "worn" face look all the worse. It's an aspect of grading which gets far too little attention. That imbalance will proceed through the entire coin's life, one face will be more worn than the other and even though the reality is that the fresher face reflects the true wear since struck, the lesser face will determine the grade. I'm not so sure, any more, that's fair. |
|
Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
Helps if you share specifics about what didn't make sense to you. Ditto... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
|
|
Valued Member
 Canada
180 Posts |
Appreciate the input SsuperDdave.
Learning that the dies were not changed out at the same time, is all the proof I needed to confirm the drawer thing was just a hobby-rumour.
Seems many in the hobby like to grade portraits and not the overall coin.
Good for me, as I don't collect portraits.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
1921 , 1927, and the 1936 Dot 25 cents reverses are all convex reverses and thus wear in a rather peculiar fashion. You can have a fully Very fine obverse and the lettering will be worn down to make the coin look VG or worse on the reverse. Source Standard Grading Guide to Canadian Coins James E Charlton and RC Willey c.1965 Whitman Publishing Racine Wisconsin P.7,61
PS also convexity is a problem with Large cents 1859 obverse,1892-1901 reverse.
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts |
"While it may sound "robotic" to you, it's something newbies tend to forget and need reminded of, and so it is oft repeated."[xshift]
Here we are on a coin discussion site and people are going to ask questions. It is by way of asking questions and receiving answers, that people learn. All to often the answer people receive to their questions is, buy the book.
Therefor, it is robotic and certainly not helpful.
It is all well and good to encourage people to buy books, but which book.
It is all well and good to tell people to buy the book, but do they have the means to buy the book.
Maybe the person asking the question has difficulties with reading.
Maybe the person has read the books and did not find the answer they were looking for.
People really should try harder to understand that there are circumstances beyond their own, that do exist within the lives of others.
This is a hobby, not a competition.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Quote:
Learning that the dies were not changed out at the same time, is all the proof I needed to confirm the drawer thing was just a hobby-rumour. This is why I asked you if you were talking about cabinet friction. Cabinet friction is not a rumor. Coins move when the drawers they are in are opened and closed, causing rub on the high points on one side. Sometimes these are graded with "Cabinet Friction" on the label but other times it's not so obvious that this has occurred. As SSDD mentioned the grading should not be based on the side that has the appearance of wear for the ones minted with worn dies and it should also take cabinet friction into account; I do not know what the answer to this might be. In any case, no, it is not a rumor. On buying the book: Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter where the knowledge comes from, as long as it's correct. Oftentimes we are the book they read, whether they are asking the questions or just browsing (many people here are lurkers and have never signed up to ask a question). Many times "buy the book" comes in after someone has already purchased something they knew nothing about. After which they ask more questions and gain more knowledge. I don't think I've ever seen any topic here ended by a reply that simply says "buy the book". If there are some, they are not the norm, and our resident experts haven't seen it to be able to chime in. There are hundreds of questions asked and answered here each day to which the answer is NOT "buy the book"; thoughtful and helpful replies by people who are willing to share their knowledge on a daily basis. All of that is here for the asking - they just need to read and ask questions. Everyone has the ability to search out their answers. They just have to want to. If they do not know what to ask, they start simple, usually by stating what they have, and we go from there. But perhaps you were not talking about here. And if they have trouble reading, they will also have trouble on a coin forum. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
Maybe " Buy the Book" is far too general of a statement and should more thoughtfully be put as " find the proper tool for the subject at hand". In this case if Dean had access to the book I mentioned above he would have had an answer. Not necessarily the answer he wanted , but an answer none the less) to his query on why coins wear in an odd fashion. So yes it is much the same as having the proper tool to fix or repair something. As an example you would not use a can opener to replace a tail light on a Ferrari. This would be the wrong use for a tool .........in this case the can opener . An other analogy would be that you would not use the book " English Silver Coins " to find information on lets say "Canadian coinage of Edward VIII 1936 ". Again simply the wrong tool for the job. The answers are out there (somewhere), you simply have to use the right to tool to acquire the answer. So it is not "buy the Book" that is important here , it is "use the right TOOL" that becomes necessary to acquire the knowledge that we seek in numismatics. Sometimes that does translate to "Buy the Book" but that is not always the correct tool to use  . Edited by Pacificoin
12/04/2014 11:38 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Quote:
The answers are out there (somewhere), you simply have to use the right to tool to acquire the answer. So it is not "buy the Book" that is important here , it is "use the right TOOL" that becomes necessary to acquire the knowledge that we seek in numismatics. Sometimes that does translate to "Buy the Book" but that is not always the correct tool to use Indeed, and agreed. The 'rule' is simplistic and oft-quoted but its meaning encompasses a larger truth, one the newbie won't get until they actually get ahold of the tool in question that they need. I don't believe it actually qualifies as a "rumor," however. It is still true, in place of a larger argument it just requires context and expansion to be of use to a beginner who doesn't yet understand everything that entails. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Quote: Quote:Quote:Helps if you share specifics about what didn't make sense to you. Quote:
Ever read something in Charlton or Haxby that just didn't make sense? Indeed. Such as? And still waiting on this one..  |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
I agree with xshift .. Perhaps your right Pacificoin "Coast to Coast" chat room material |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
pennyman......................that is why......................I said it earlier!!  Edited by Pacificoin
12/04/2014 2:21 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
..and if you're not comfortable reading or having trouble finding the "right book", you can and will find many of your questions answered if you join the RCNA.  They will also listen to your questions,.. and then point you to the best expert pertaining to specific questions. .. ...but there is also a lot of accurate info coming down the tubes right here in this discussion.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
And although it is not specific to this thread, another possible "Right Book"..... you can use the "Tools" the ANA provides through their membership. The monthly "Numismatist" is a great read and can also help those skeptics and debunkers get back on the straight and narrow. Remember we all have have our own personal tool chest. It is possible to find the right one for the job or task at hand. Edited by Pacificoin
12/04/2014 3:32 pm
|
|
Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Therein, lies the circular argument... (I suspect this whole thread was born out of the 1944 Tombac thread) https://goccf.com/t/191508Books and articles were written by those, who undoubtedly researched other published material (e.g. older books, mint reports, etc.). Some information was provided by word of mouth (e.g., mint workers interviewed by Haxby, when Haxby was the curator of the Canadian Currency Museum). It is ok to question what is known - my career, and a good part of science is based upon that very action. But you can't just say "things don't make sense"... you have to prove it. If you want an example, take the 1858 1-cent mintage figures. The amount of die pairings and populations out there did not make sense with what was printed in The Royal Mint Reports. So, Rob Turner rolled up his sleeves, and proved it, and published his results in a book. Now, depending on which book you pick up (Mint Report for Provincial Canada or Turner's book)... you will have conflicting information. Would you say that Turners book "does not make sense" because it conflicts with an erroneous mint report? "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
And with that "Therein lies the circular argument............." maybe Dean now has enough help with books , tools and different perspectives, to put this thread to bed before it "ends badly". I think our esteemed moderator has put the thread in a proper light!
|
| |
Replies: 65 / Views: 7,438 |
First Page
Posted 12/03/2014 10:58 am
