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 Replies: 65 / Views: 7,446 |
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Valued Member
 Canada
180 Posts |
Not sure what people are sweating over, simply started a thread to deal with hobby rumours, of which there are many and it appears to have struck a nerve with some.
"I suspect this whole thread was born out of the 1944 Tombac thread"{SPP-Ottawa}
You suspect wrong.
"But you can't just say "things don't make sense"... you have to prove it."{SPP-Ottawa}
No I don't have to prove it, the author who wrote the material has to prove that what they wrote is correct, all I have to show is reasonable doubt.
"Would you say that Turners book "does not make sense" because it conflicts with an erroneous mint report?"{SPP-Ottawa}
Don't have the book, but am greatly interested in knowing more about the book and the erroneous mint report.
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
...the author who wrote the material has to prove that what they wrote is correct, all I have to show is reasonable doubt No - they don't. Those authors cite their sources and draw interpretations based on the best possible information available to them at the time (which in itself, may, or may not, be correct). You can show reasonable doubt all you want, but unless you come up with a counter-argument that is backed by new information that support your own conclusions, then you are doing nothing more than creating new rumours... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts |
SPP-Ottawa, if you choose to digest every written word in a hobby related book as being 100% fact, that is your choice.
"Those authors cite their sources and draw interpretations based on the best possible information available to them at the time (which in itself, may, or may not, be correct)"{SPP-Ottawa}
And as time passes and they do learn that what they have written is incorrect (not that some didn't know from the onset), do any write a retraction in their next book. Not likely.
"You can show reasonable doubt all you want, but unless you come up with a counter-argument that is backed by new information that support your own conclusions, then you are doing nothing more than creating new rumours..."{SPP-Ottawa}
I see. To question and show reasonable doubt about written or spoken misinformation, is now considered to be creating a rumour. Not.
If an author is going to talk the talk, then I am of the opinion that they should also be prepared to walk the walk.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
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Hobby has lots of rumours, rumours which are started by those who profit directly from the rumours they start and these people continue to perpetuate the same rumours over time with ever so slight changes, even though they know better. Next thing we know, people are saying the rumours are fact, just because it is written in a publication. the above quote from here https://goccf.com/t/191508&whichpage=2Next you'll be telling us SPP started a rumor about "where this thread stems from" Reading your quote speaks volumes, and I tend to think SPP is right about where this thread stems from. We live in a world surrounded by rumors can you please get to the point bellmaker, is there some particular rumor about numismatics you want to discuss? Or is this thread nothing more than silly innuendo? |
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Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts |
"We live in a world surrounded by rumors can you please get to the point bellmaker, is there some particular rumor about numismatics you want to discuss? Or is this thread nothing more than silly innuendo?{pennyman007}
As the beginning indicates. This is a thread about hobby rumours and all are welcome to join in and share their input.
SPP-Ottawa did join in and did mention an erroneous mint report and I am genuinely interested in discussing the subject further, as I have already indicated.
Can't see how an entire Mint Report can be erroneous, but I will keep an open mind, should SPP-Ottawa decide to share a few more details.
You are the second person pennyman007, to assume that you understand the reasons behind starting this thread.
I assure you that you do not.
But if it will serve to stay the need to repeat myself over and over, I will deal with the 1944 subject.
There are no mintage figures for a 1944 dated 5 cent tombac coin. Those who write and those who verbalize that there are mintage figures, are simply repeating a hobby rumour.
If memory serves me, Charlton under the ownership of Bill Cross, was the first reference book to print the 1944 five cent hobby rumour.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
Dean I think that the 1944 Tombac issue is quite interesting. You are right that nowhere does it say that $400 dollars worth of TOMBAC 5 cent coins (dated 1944) were struck and issued. The mint report does state that 8000 coins were issued in 1944, most likely in keeping with the practice of issuing previously dated and minted coins into commerce in a different year than they were struck. The 8000 coins were in most likelihood dated 1943. This practice was quite common with a lot of issues coming from the mints in London and then Ottawa. A very good example is the 1949 Silver dollar which was issued and distributed right up until 1951. My theories and research are well covered in the other thread on the 1944 Tombac and you may find that is worthwhile rereading what I said.
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Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts |
Others seem shy, so I hope no one minds if I take another go at the long list of hobby rumours.
Although colorful, I call hobby rumour on the 1955 Arnprior dollar story.
After the regular issue of coins had been officially completed for the year, the Mint did not do up a special order of 2000 coins for a firm in Arnprior Ontario.
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Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts |
Moving along.
There is this nagging bit of information that has graced the pages of several publications that simply does not make any sense to me, but it just may make sense to others.
Apparently, the 1954 no shoulder fold/strap one cent, is considered to be a proof-like (PL) coin, no matter the grade it is found in.
Is this legit info or is this just another hobby rumour?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
I read an article last year about the factory that gave away a number of silver dollars as a gift in appreciation of sorts, I believe it was soon after that, that the company closed. The part I was not sure of in the article was weather it was a special order after the mint had minted it's tally for the year or not. I believe all the pieces were the same as in the Arnprior variety. I did read that this variety was noticed from the coins the employees received as some of them were quick to sell for the needed cash. I tried to find the article with no success, I'll keep looking.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
I did a copy and paste from Wickipedia for the following; (Origin of the Arnprior name[edit] In December 1955, the Royal Canadian Mint made up an order of 2,000 silver dollars for a firm in Arnprior, Ontario. These coins had 2 and ½ water lines at the right end of the canoe. This was similar to the accidental disappearance of water lines on the versions from 1950-1951. The 1955 dollars caught the interest of many collectors and it was this version that led to the term Arnprior being applied to any dollar with an appearance of missing water lines. An even more collectible of the 1955 Arnprior, is given by the die break on the obverse legend, with the result being the joining of the T and the I in GRATIA.  ) I've not been able to find anything that says it didn't receive a special order from Playtex for 2000 coins to be given to employees, have you found information that states otherwise that you can post a link? |
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
A new die was not created for that dollar, or any other Arnprior or short water lines dollar... those "varieties" are created from over polishing and deteriorarion of the dies... the die break is an obvious indicator of the stage of the die.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
SPP yes I had also seen that and missed adding it to my reply ty, that problem I believe of the overpolishing began with the 50 and or 51 dollars.
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Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts |
"In December 1955, the Royal Canadian Mint made up an order of 2000 silver dollars which was obtained by a firm in Arnprior, Ontario, after the regular issue of these coins had been officially completed for that year" (Charlton, 7th Edition, page 3) The wording implies that the Mint restarted the dollar coining presses just to accommodate a request from an unknown private company. The 1955 Report, does not reflect this as being something that came to pass. |
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
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The 1955 Report, does not reflect this as being something that came to pass. Why would it? As part of normal Canadian decimal coinage, what difference would it make if a bank, or any other company, put in a request for a couple of mint bags from the mint? It would just be tallied as part of the annual mintage figures. What if Haxby or James Charlton had interviewed a former mint worker or mint executive to obtain that information? By your logic, if it is not in the mint report, it never happened? "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
Canada
180 Posts |
"The wording implies that the Mint restarted the dollar coining presses"
Learning that I can count on certain people to skirt past what is being said.
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Replies: 65 / Views: 7,446 |
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Posted 12/04/2014 10:00 pm
