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1906-S Liberty Head Double Eagle 20 Dollar Gold Coins ?

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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2014  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the new pictures, I feel more confident the coin is, unfortunately, not genuine. In addition to the date, the lettering on the reverse looks different than that on the genuine examples.
Edited by D0ubl3Eagle
12/31/2014 8:33 pm
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2014  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought about this coin, even with the smaller images, was fake. There is a lot of porosity in the fields, and the brush marks on the surface of the coin resemble those on some of my own Chinese counterfeits. You can always take it to a coin shop to have it authenticated. You may want to post this coin's weight for us to make an absolutely sure opinion.
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Cruisinfusion's Avatar
United States
1531 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  02:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cruisinfusion to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first impression was a very, very harsh cleaning - maybe someone tried to remove something from the coin and ended up sanding it down. After further inspection, with the others on their conclusions about authenticity.
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EarlyTurban's Avatar
United States
383 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EarlyTurban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely fake... And harshly cleaned/hairlines to boot. I'd stay away from this one..

ET
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2015  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm held back from being sure it's a counterfeit because it was shot on an iPhone. They're admittedly excellent cameras, the best phone camera for shooting coins, but macro photography introduces perspective distortions and tiny lenses have distortion problems of their own. So, although I'm seeing certain things, I don't necessarily trust what I'm seeing.

What I see most importantly are odd angles on the date digits and mushiness about LIBERTY. Per my usual habit, I looked at the first fifty or so Heritage results for this issue to determine date and mintmark locations (with a mintage of two million there will be plenty of variance). The mint mark is OK for shape and placement but I saw none with a left-tilted 9.

If those features are distorted by the images, my opinion is in doubt.

It's quite possible this is gold even if it's counterfeit. Wouldn't be the first time the counterfeiter planned on profit from the numismatic premium, and this one doubles melt value and then some at MS64. Heck, they could have stolen the gold to begin with and it's all gravy. The cleaning lines could be deliberate to help mask the fake features; that wouldn't be a first either.
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DoubleEagle20's Avatar
United States
1748 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  02:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoubleEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not genuine. Some sort of copy.
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Copper Penny Connection's Avatar
United States
415 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  06:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Copper Penny Connection to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen gold coins JUST LIKE THIS turn out to be authentic. Yes, has odd features but may be cause from an EDS or a LDS....When I compare your photo to others, Yes some things are off but you will find that with about every coin series and date.....If anything, I see possible doubling on alot of your devices, which could throw off the appearance of letters.
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Brunei Darussalam
5 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  09:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hsiangzz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ok thanks guys... and what do EDS or LDS means? can you please explain further? I'm new to coins. and just so you guys know, this coin had been in my family for almost 30 years. my mom bought it off someone almost 30 years ago. she told me she mixed the coin together with her other golds, maybe that's how it got all the scratches. and if it's fake, shouldn't the color of the gold or the details fade? I don't know...
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  10:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EDS and LDS are Early Die State and Late Die State, describing how a die wears during use and imparts weaker strikes as it wears. An LDS coin will show details somewhat "smeared" or weakened. On your coin, what I'm seeing around LIBERTY could be the product of a very worn die. This issue was about 2 million pieces, and 200,000 strikes would have been a good lifespan for a die. So, one might expect they would make the best use of each die, because they are painstaking to prepare.

Many counterfeits are contemporary, designed to join in circulation with "real" circulating coinage. So this could be a counterfeit - if it is - which is itself over a century old.

The scratches are the product of someone deliberately wiping the coin. Gold is very soft, of course, and these scratches could have as easily been caused by a somewhat-coarse cloth as a brush. But they're deliberate, even if they didn't happen during your family's ownership. And they often are not visible except from specific lighting angles - it is easy to believe that you never saw them prior to putting the coin under the camera.
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Copper Penny Connection's Avatar
United States
415 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Copper Penny Connection to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a picture of a LDS although she is a beauty. This coin shows similar "problems" that are making others lean to this being fake. However my pictures are not that great. Ill try to take new ones later if it helps. I found this coin RAW and paid like $150? maybe $175. Was right around spot price.



1906-S-Liberty-Head-Double-Eagle-20-Dollar-Gold-Coins-?

1906-S-Liberty-Head-Double-Eagle-20-Dollar-Gold-Coins-?
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How much does the coin weigh? That should get a definitive answer.
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Cruisinfusion's Avatar
United States
1531 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cruisinfusion to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I found this coin RAW and paid like $150? maybe $175. Was right around spot price.


Yeah, you got that one for a STEAL!
Edited by Cruisinfusion
01/03/2015 4:05 pm
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Copper Penny Connection's Avatar
United States
415 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Copper Penny Connection to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks! came back MS65 by NGC, the Jeweler I was buying it from dropped it on the ground TWICE before I took it and safely stashed it!!....on the same trip I paid either $25 or $26 for an 1895-O Morgan that should have came back a au50 but I got a 45.


1906-S-Liberty-Head-Double-Eagle-20-Dollar-Gold-Coins-?

1906-S-Liberty-Head-Double-Eagle-20-Dollar-Gold-Coins-?


Also did I forget to mention I picked up a 1942/1-D mercury not too long ago? It was before silver dropped again so I paid a full $1.20

I need to take pics of it!
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Cruisinfusion's Avatar
United States
1531 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cruisinfusion to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, but I remember the thread about those two.

Let's get back on topic before we hijack the thread.

I think the best way for the OP to see if the coin is real or not is to weigh it and compare it to the real weight of 33.436 grams.
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2015  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back to the OP: Your coin appears counterfeit but I am curious as to its weight? Can you give us a weight in grams?

Copperpennyconnection: You should start a different thread with your coin pictures.
ANA #R3154474
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