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 Replies: 22 / Views: 3,177 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1839 Posts |
How will Coin Collectors Interpret Certified Coin Grades in the Future ? http://www.coinweek.com/education/c...-the-future/I hate to be the curmudgeon here, but you've just reprinted an article in its' entirety. This is a clear violation of copyright and Fair Use Doctrine, and leaves CCF liable for a Takedown Notice. We can't allow that. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
Took me a while to read but it's quite insightful. I agree 100% too, some of these are very serious issues that are being to gnaw away at collectors who are getting more and more paranoid about overgraded, doctored and fake coins. I think it's resulting in more and more collectors leaving the hobby. Thanks for posting.
Edited by zxcccxz
01/03/2015 03:07 am
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
A post well worth taking the time to read. Where you can have rare coins that can have a price variation of thousands of dollars on the turn of a single (high) grade point, and there is a subsequent disagreement on that grade, the potential for a court action is possible. Many times I have read posts about a coin coming back from a TPG where the recipient has been dissapointed, and the idea arises that it should be sent to another TPG for a higher grade. There is always the temptation for a TPG to grade higher, because of the possibility of more customers then using that particular service. I REALLY prefer to grade my own coins and keep them raw, especially when I am not selling into the U.S. market. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2130 Posts |
Very good post and I agree that it was worth the time it took to read. I learned a lot and I will think about this when purchasing a slab coin in the future.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Thanks for sharing. Very insightful.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
A very good read, and a nice reminder to buy the coin, not the slab and to not buy cleaned coins!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
Great post and very informative. Thanks.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
There isn't a single point in that article relevant to someone who does Job One of numismatics - learn to grade. Grading has remained pretty consistent among the real experts. It's only the TPG's and less-experienced collectors who place importance on the opinion of someone else. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
Quote:
There isn't a single point in that article relevant to someone who does Job One of numismatics - learn to grade. THIS. Articles like this kind of irritate me because they make coin collecting seem, well, not fun at all. And I certainly think that anyone new to the hobby would feel the same way after reading this. I think the ultra rich collectors with their ultra collections would find it relevant, but let's hope that the "joy/fun" of coin collecting will always remain the dominant philosophy of the hobby. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
I totally agree with Dave, that article is not directed towards or even helpful to any numismatist. It is for hobbyists or would be investors new to the hobby. What do the TPG's do that every show dealer/coin shop has not done for the past 100 years. My whole collection as a kid, was in 2X2's marked choice, gem , BU. A dealer at a coin show in the sixties sold you a coin in a 2X2, written on the 2X2 was the type, the date and condition anywhere from Basal to Gem Uncirculated. You trusted the dealer as an expert and paid his price or you educated yourself, made your own determination of grade and condition and either dickered or declined to buy. This how I did it for twenty years prior to the Sheldon scale. How is this different from what the TPG's do. The only thing I got out of the article of any worth was " buy the coin, not the holder " Oh wait........I already knew that too  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1839 Posts |
I agree that if you know how to grade then you are well on your way to making sure that the coins you buy are going to be a safe bet. However we don't collect coins in a vacuum. As long as you are buying coins then concepts like grade-flation are relevant in that they have the potential to effect coin prices across the market. And whether you purchase coins as an investment or solely as a hobby then I think that fluctuations in prices is relevant to anyone that spends their money on coins.
Edited by Tbone
01/03/2015 1:53 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Absolutely; an understanding of pricing is part and parcel of the grading process. Rarer issues tend towards "market" pricing and the smart collector has to understand what and where pricing pressures manifest themselves.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
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Absolutely; an understanding of pricing is part and parcel of the grading process. I don't know as I totally agree with that, and certainly not as a sustainable part of the grading process. The value of a coin based on the grade of a TPG is so arbitrary, trendy, faddish, that it will be totally unsustainable in the long run. At some point, especially in the modern issue coin market, common sense is going to take over. To say a coin is worth $1500 in MS70 because PCGS has a POP of 4, without taking into account the POP of NGC, ANACS, ICG, PCI ....... just because of a general concensus, an arbitrary and capricious general concensus, that PCGS is the best, is beyond ludicrous. Add into that, the fact that this exact same coin, a coin seemingly flawed, in MS69 is only worth $35. Of course, the TPG's never offer forth, exactly what this indiscernible flaw, that causes the value to drop $1450, is. Add into that, the majority of coins are not submitted at all, so trying to price according to POP, a POP report that is only a small sampling of the coins at large, is idiocy. Grading coins on a scale has been around for a 100 years, this will be around for another 100 years. Value based on an understanding of pricing based on TPG grade and TPG POP is a folly fraught with trends, fads, flippers, get rich quickers, pseudo-investors and part time hobbyists. Certainly not a sustainable trend in numismatics. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1531 Posts |
 Quite honestly, I'm against the grading of modern coins entirely, but by all means TPGs aren't all bad. Because they're essentially a certification of authenticity, newer collectors can purchase from reputable sites and know they are paying an honest price for a legitimate coin. Not only that, TPGs can help new (or even old!) collectors sharpen their grading skills by giving them countless examples of the same type of coin in different grades. Sometimes the top TPGs (PCGS, NGC, and ANACS) do make mistakes, both with grading and marketing. For example, some might consider PCGS's First Strike label a mistake for the hobby, but PCGS is sure enjoying it... There are so many ways to collect coins, so there will obviously be lots of varying opinions. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
denco7- well said, sir. Well said. I completely concur with your assessment. As far as TPGs go, I value them for authentication purposes. I honestly don't really care all that much about grades anyway. To me, eye appeal triumphs over grade any day.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Well, if you were conversant with pricing as I mention, you'd know that obvious 64 in an NGC 64 slab is likely to go for much less than the exact same coin in a PCGS slab at Heritage or some other auction, and is therefore a potential bargain. If, of course, you're also aware of the point at which you should stop bidding. So you need to know the true grade, the actual price people pay for it, and the price differential people who don't think as deep as you assign to it from different TPG's. |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 3,177 |
Posted 01/03/2015 05:05 am
