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Zerbe Proof Die

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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2015  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a big part of it. The designation is rather dubious, since they weren't struck as proofs. We'd have to examine a lot of coins, and there aren't a lot to be found at any given time. We could find that of all the coins that have that "proofy" appearance, 90% are one die pair. We could also find that since there were multiple presses making dollars, multiple die pairs were prepared to make coins like this. It could also be that after seeing the really nice coins of the EDS VAM 1AG, someone wanted to make more like that, either for someone else or to just have really nice coins go into circulation.
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monstermorganman's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2015  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add monstermorganman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know one thing..... its confusing as heck.. if you read the VAM 1 page it indicates these as the business strike zerbes and that some have dots next to #1 and some dont and some have die scratch U and some dont and supposedly that is how they distinguish between the 2... ALL VERY CLOUDY AND SUBJECTIVE IMHO
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2015  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not really. We're still only dealing with two known die pairs, those designated 1AG and 47, and the markers specific to each are clearly different. And aside some smoking-gun document I can see how this is a question which probably won't ever have a clear answer. The relevant coins have been studied hard enough and not much is left to learn in that regard.

Fun stuff. Seriously. It kinda helps teach a bit of humility in a world where we begin to think we can overcome anything with technology.
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monstermorganman's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2015  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add monstermorganman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought they just discovered a d2 reverse proof also.. I believe someone guesstimated this was done as an afterthought/cover up possibly by morgan to divert the dogs who might sniff his operation out
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monstermorganman's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2015  5:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add monstermorganman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And in my very subtle opine.....Zerbe was just a name everyone NOW lumps together like they do polishing lines,which can actually be used to describe a wide array of events performed depending what tools/methods etc were actually used.

Maybe one of the elite original holders of these coins paid off the big 3/vam world so none of us could become experts and search these pieces out.
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2015  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A big thing that's leading to confusion is legacy information that can't easily be flagged as superseded. For a while, all D1s were referred to as Zerbe dies if there was a diagonal line by the U in UNUM or a dot by the first 1. This turned out to be incorrect, as many dies had that dot and/or a line by the U in UNUM. The problem is, that's a hard bell to unring. There are coins in TPG holders that say Zerbe on them that have nothing to do with the dies used to strike his made-to-order coins.

The Chapman proofs are D1 reverses. I remember a VAMWorld thread that mentioned a D2 reverse die for a proof, but it may have been a later business strike using the Chapman proof obverse die. I can't remember exactly what it was.
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