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How To Make These Shots Better?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 1,986Next Topic  
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
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228 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  12:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've recently posted these pics on the forum for grading and received some mixed comments about the shots. Any advice for taking better photos with my setup?

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There shots were taken at ISO 100, f/22, and around .6". I'm using a Canon 6d, with 50mm 1.4 with 2 Vello extension tubes on it (13mm+31mm). The shots aren't really cropped...the coins are roughly filling the frame. Camera is on a tripod and I'm using the timer to take the shots. Using two of the IKEA Jansjo lights, with the ambient lights in the room also on. I'm doing minimal adjustment in Lightroom...+20 contrast, +4 clarity...some general sharpening and of course adjusting the white balance. I didn't want to overdo it on the Lightroom edits.

What can I do to improve the shots? I'm thinking turning off the ambient light might help? Maybe using only one of the extension tubes and cropping more will get better sharpness/focus? A black background instead? Diffuse the lighting? Keep the lights closer or farther away from the coins? Any thoughts welcome, and let me know if you need more info about my setup. Thanks!
Edited by Phaedrus29
01/29/2015 12:51 pm
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austrokiwi's Avatar
2087 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Straight off drop the F stop down to somewhere between 8 and 16. Your pictures are probably suffering from diffraction( making them look blurry)
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
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228 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah thanks, I didn't realize that...I just figured I wanted maximum depth of field. 8-16 is a pretty big range...is the idea to try to go as close as possible to 8 such that everything is in focus?
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CaptainFwiffo's Avatar
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4132 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would try opening up the aperture as much as you can get away with. At macro distances, f/22 is going to needlessly add a lot of softness due to diffraction. I shoot my coins at f/5.6, but that's about as far as you can push it in terms of depth-of-field, so you might want to try something like f/8.

I would turn off the ambient light and add some diffusion to the Jansjos (just start with tissue paper or something for testing purposes). Also, it looks like your lights are not at a very high angle relative to the coin. You want them shining mostly downward onto the coin, the lights should almost be right next to the camera lens.
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think we are definitely making improvements! f8 is definitely looking better. I also tried using my iphone as a remote through wifi on my camera, rather than the timer on the camera itself...that made a big difference. I also changed the background to black, and brought the highlights back a little bit in Lightroom. Oh and I am only using the one 31mm extension tube so the coin is more in the center of the lens, and I'm cropping a bit more in Lightroom. Here's before:

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And after:

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I've been shrinking the photo down to 1560x1040, which is a 1.9mb file in this case. For the purposes of posting pics on ebay or something, is it OK to shrink them that much...I'm assuming they don't need a 30mb full resolution jpg right?
Edited by Phaedrus29
01/29/2015 3:20 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm guessing your setup requires you to manually focus, correct? This being a Canon, there's no reason for you not to tether the camera to the computer using the Zoom Browser software Canon provides and run the whole affair with your mouse and keyboard. No need to touch the camera once set up, and you get to focus the shot in real time on your monitor. That has the further benefit of letting you fine-tune the camera setup to get the absolute minimum distance from sensor-coin at which you can still achieve focus. Bigger the better, so when you downsize for publication you reap the maximum apparent sharpness benefit.

The 50/1.4 is not a macro lens (to belabor the obvious), so you're rather pushing its' capabilities here. The results need to be tweaked to their best, moreso than more forgiving glass.

Work hard to minimize reflected light from anywhere. Every photon of it which reaches your lens, from any direction, reduces contrast and contrast is probably your greatest challenge with this hardware. Therefore, ambient light is a no-no. Heck, I only shoot at night. This will be a good place to experiment with light diffusion. The only problem this creates is White Balance, but my experience with Canon is they adjust really nicely using bright white so a few sheets of printer paper is all you need for a custom white balance setting.

For postprocessing, crop to a square around the coin and reduce size for posting by even fractions so the software can do the reduction smoothly, as opposed to choosing an arbitrary size number unrelated to the original image. With a small reduction in jpg Quality you can get images of 800-1000px diameter (your target size for readability online) and a filesize under 500kb with no visible reduction in image quality so even Mobile browsers won't have difficulty with image-intensive threads.
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
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228 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comments. I've been autofocusing...it works even with the (auto) extension tubes on. For some reason, shooting with the remote is much sharper than with the timer.

I'll make sure that I have no ambient light going forward...I didn't realize that would be an issue. I can adjust WB in Lightroom pretty easily...were you suggesting putting the coins on a sheet of white paper? I thought people were saying only to place the coins on 100% cotton.

I wasn't choosing an arbitrary size for the photo...I was keeping the 3:2 native ratio. I can create a file of around 500kb but I figured people would want to zoom in and pixel peep.

I can easily "mask" off the background like this...recommended or no?

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How-To-Make-These-Shots-Better?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can adjust WB in Lightroom pretty easily...were you suggesting putting the coins on a sheet of white paper?


With a camera of that sophistication there's no reason not to set a Custom White Balance for each shooting session, and not have to make any adjustment at all in post. It only takes a single shutter click. It's the same reason why I recommend running the whole show from your computer - faster, easier use and minimizing variables which can go wrong. If you own a Canon camera, there's no reason not to.

The whole purpose of cropping to just the coin is to reduce the amount your system and our eyes have to process to evaluate your coin. No reason to waste processor cycles or monitor screen space on areas of the shot which are meaningless. Cropping to coin only should always be the first step in postprocessing.

Masking off the background would be a nice touch. I agree with your "old t-shirt" bearing surface for the coin, but nicely-aged cotton shows a bit of reflectivity too even if not enough to bother the shot quality anyway.
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
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228 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2015  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
With a camera of that sophistication there's no reason not to set a Custom White Balance for each shooting session, and not have to make any adjustment at all in post. It only takes a single shutter click. It's the same reason why I recommend running the whole show from your computer - faster, easier use and minimizing variables which can go wrong. If you own a Canon camera, there's no reason not to.
Thanks for the advice...I've actually never set WB in camera before like this! I've looked it up and it's very easy to do so I'll give that a shot next. This forum has been great not only for learning about the coins but also about photography. Not only for the WB issue but also for extension tubes...I never even knew that was a possibility before I started reading this forum. Thanks all!

Quote:
The whole purpose of cropping to just the coin is to reduce the amount your system and our eyes have to process to evaluate your coin. No reason to waste processor cycles or monitor screen space on areas of the shot which are meaningless. Cropping to coin only should always be the first step in postprocessing.
Ah I see your point about cropping...I was trying to keep the proportions of the photo the same as my sensor (as I usually do with other photography), but I realize now that that's just silly for these pics. I was missing your obvious point that I might as well just crop to the coin itself!! Durp!
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Phaedrus29's Avatar
United States
228 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2015  12:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phaedrus29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Custom WB didn't really work for some reason...coins were looking super green. I think the white sheet of paper with the two IKEA lights might be too bright. Here's what I have now...certainly an improvement! Would these be good enough for an auction?

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Quote:
You want them shining mostly downward onto the coin, the lights should almost be right next to the camera lens.
I found that sometimes the shots seemed better with the lights pulled away from the camera a bit...not sure. Maybe leaving them there and diffusing would work better, but sometimes moving the lights away to the sides seemed to produce nice results.
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 Posted 01/31/2015  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, here's another tip of the day...

Go to a camera store (or look online) and pick up a roll of Shurtape A&E flat black masking tape. I like the 2" wide roll. It's expensive since it's a professional cinematographer's tool of choice, but I am finding it extremely useful all around. I use it to black everything around the setup. It also makes a decent black background with a fairly fine texture that I just leave in the image without vignetting.

P29, you are on a good track of improvement! One thing left is to eliminate the blown-out highlights. I do this by using the EV control on my Canon. Pick your favorite metering mode. Take a series of shots from 0EV to -2EV. Pick the shot that eliminates blowouts in any RGB channel. Use that EV offset for all your shots in that mode. This will result in shadows being pushed down. If you process in RAW then no problem, you will have sufficient dynamic range to recover them. If you output jpg, then you can compensate by reducing the in-camera contrast. I don't do RAW, only jpg, and I always set the contrast to -4 to maximize dynamic range. It's very easy to increase contrast in post to recover blacks. I'm lazy and just let the camera provide me with the raw material to work with. But the raw material must not have crushed blacks or blown out highlights.

Once you give up the paradigm of accepting what the camera gives you, you will find enlightenment.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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 Posted 01/31/2015  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can set MWB directly in zoombrowser without doing any shutter actions using the eyedropper. Couldn't be easier.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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