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What I've Been Up To And 2015 Coin Purchase Plan

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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  3:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I took a complete break from all coin activity for 2.5 months. I completely ignored anything coin related. I returned 2 days ago. I'm pleased to report the spell I was under is broken. I had gotten to the point, where I didn't question spending $150 on an Oz of silver, when spot was $18-$20 an Oz. Yet I'd agonize on spending $40 on a pair of pants I'd be making regular use of, and not storing away after a couple of weeks gazing at.
It really sunk in seeing repeatedly the coins I purchased new, a few months later drop up to 25% in value. I finally saw how ridiculous my behaviour was. After all money is a finite resource. I needed the complete break to get control of my spending habits. It really does feel like I was under some sort of spell now. I feel like I have a clearer perspective on where I want to go and I've even set a spending budget. I plan on capping spending at $ 1,000, unless I sell off older coins I'm not completely thrilled with.

The other funny behaviour I seemed to fall prey to was the need to complete a set, even if I wasn't thrilled with most of the other coins. I wonder what causes this and how many of my fellow collectors are plagued by this compulsive behaviour? The past few years mints have released numerous Multi coin subs with total prices being in excess of $400. Then shortly after completion there's a dramatic price drop. The RCM has been big on subs. The sad thing is they've further reduced the value by switch to cheap looking inexpensive cardboard cases. So you don't get a nice case or the clamshell, however, a cheaply made case that will fall apart in coming years. The cases are so cheap, a member here was given several for free by his post office. This speaks volumes to me!! How likely would they've given away beautiful solid wood cases?

In my evaluation and reflection, it seems the RCM has worked overtime to kill the Nclt side of the hobby.
They've done this by over repetition of themes, over inflated pricing, producing sub par display cases, and lastly over saturation of product. Back when it was quarterly releases there was excited expectation to see what the small release contained, and prices were a bit more realistic and some offering had pleasing display cases. Then too the coin was more likely to retain it's purchase price for a longer period.

I remember the thrill I had in 2012, when I actually found a true deal on a coin. Today it's expected to find recent releases at up to 20% off. The thrill of actually having a coin increase in value over coming yrs is scarce. More and more its becoming why bother.

People will only tolerate seeing their hard earned cash flushed down the toilet for so long. People will stop buying when they see there's little value. The average consumer wants value for his hard earned money. When a person stops to think how many hrs of work will purchase a 1 Oz coin it's beyond ludicrous. When I'm tempted now, I stop and think how many hrs of work will it take to purchase the coin and is it truly worth it.

I received this week the $25 color flag, $50 beaver, and $100 horse. My rep had ordered on my behalf. The beaver is the best one. It features different finishes, motion, fine details; I love the water bubbles and droplets, however the beaver theme is done to death. Really how many beavers are needed in past couple yrs! Same goes for the initial polar bear, the snowy owl was a nice change. I excited to get the horse coin until I looked at it closely. There's nothing interesting going on in the setting, when compared to the eagle, big horn sheep, no use of different finishes to create interest. Plus it's one ugly horse image. I was really let down, being a horsewoman and the mint having so few horse coins. It's like they really don't care. I'm actually struggling whether or not to take it to the bank. It's that compulsion to have a complete set!! The color flag I love the engraving, but the grey shading is really distracting. I do like how the info is no longer taking up a good portion of the image.

I've read the other topics on 2015 coins and I see there's a growth of wallet fatigue. I think pricing and value have a lot to do with the growing disinterest. I wonder how many collectors would continue to purchase if coins were 30% less at retail and managed to retain most of their value into the future? How many are bored with the recurring depictions of old themes? How many are just overwhelmed by the constant barrage of offerings the brain just turns off? How many feel their current collection is large enough? This is where I am currently, I may even have too many. What do people is the right size for their Nclt collections? I'd love to hear what my fellow collectors have to say!! I'm finding the discussions a most enjoyable part of the hobby.
Edited by pocket change 50
02/28/2015 5:37 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My thoughts are the same.
Just without thinking about silver spot price.
One of the things that very bother me: coins coming to collection, stored away, coming and stored...so where it going, why I need it at all?
Decided dramatically to decrease it: $1000-$1200 per year (coin a month). Without guessing next releases, the "Nickel" sub and "Masks" set - this is what I need, but since I don't like all 5c designs - will by only 3 out of 6, so I have some free $$$.

$25 Flag, $50 Beaver, $100 Horse - take them without thinking to the Bank. Buy $3 Flag instead.
Beaver: 2 coins in O Canada + 1oz single release
Horse: the image looks worse than on bullion Stock Horse
Flag: Proof $3 much better
All previous: Bear (again too many), Owl, Rams - if you need, leave the best, others take to the bank to get cash.

I stopped with the XforX, don't care about "all set complete". I left with 10 first "20for20" in the case and $200 - it is very unique.

Another restriction:
since unlike other people in the forums I have no free time and funds to buy'n'resell - I stopped to buy "spares".
Nor my friends, neither family do not need more cons-gifts.

So at the bottom line:
small with not often new coins collection better, then over-grown something with everything. And that what I will keep and continue.
Edited by Silveroid
02/28/2015 4:01 pm
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Northerncoins's Avatar
Canada
2019 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Northerncoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I have been unloading a lot of my older stuff with high mintages, even the silver 2013 Superman coins, after the second round of super man coins in 2014 I lost interest in keeping the Original Superman Silver coins, well done RCM .

Oh ya BACK! PG50
Edited by Northerncoins
02/28/2015 4:07 pm
Valued Member
kenney's Avatar
Canada
316 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I stopped all of my X for X sub. I can't keep up with the RCM pumping out coins at that pace and price. I try to buy the individual coin that I like. I'm tired of buying a set like the ducks with a case for 3 coins and then guess what ? there's a fourth one coming out.

I reallocated most of my NCLT budget to other part of my collections.
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orfew's Avatar
Canada
1269 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add orfew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a newbie to the hobby it is interesting to read the thoughts of those who have been at it for a while. I guess it is possible that I chose the wrong time to begin such a hobby.
CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
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commems's Avatar
United States
12281 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm glad you're back with us pocket_change_50! Hope you're doing well!

I agree that the RCM (and many other world mints) have oversaturated the market with too many coins and have overworked some design themes to the point they have driven collectors away. My personal opinion is that the mints of the world, to a large extent, have changed their business model away from a focus on dedicated, year-after-year collectors to one focused on constantly attracting new, short-term collectors with the latest coin "innovation."

I believe the RCM has seen some of the folly in this approach and is now trying to foster longer-term collectors by launching so many subscriptions. It's cheaper to retain customers than constantly attract new ones - subscriptions are one way to retain a customer for an extended period of time.

My focus has always been on commemorative coins. I am referring to coins that celebrate an important anniversary of a person/place/event. Many collectors (and world mints) often refer to all NCLT releases as "commemoratives." It's a misnomer. For example, a series of coins depicting the native birds of a country is a "topical" collection, it is not a "commemorative" set in any form. I'm happy such topical coins exist for those that enjoy them; they're just not for me (in almost all cases). As I enjoy learning about history, commemoratives were always a natural fit for me. It has also given my collection a bit of focus so that I can keep my spend on modern NCLT in check. (Overall, my modern NCLT purchases are a minor portion of my hobby spend.)

One thing that has helped maintain my interest in the hobby over the years has been to learn about the coins I collect and share that knowledge with others who might be interested. I try to learn about the artist responsible for the coin's design, about the person/place/event depicted on the coin, special circumstances that might have surrounded the coin's issue, etc. When I feel I'm comfortable with what I've learned, I write about the coins, I give talks at coin clubs and other organizations, I prepare exhibits, etc. Sharing my collection and teaching others is what keeps me interested.

It's true that the majority of my collection spends most of its time stored away in a bank vault and therefore not immediately accessible, but I try to enjoy it by talking about it with other collectors in any way that I can.

Hopefully you'll find your own way to maintain your long-term interest!


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have spread out into decimal coins, graded silver dollars, 50 cent, 25 cent, I coin roll hunt a bit, I look for radar notes in bills. Filling in a collection of all silver dollars from 1935 to present is fun. I buy world bullion and especially like silver at this low price. I am cutting down on direct purchases from the Mint but buying more on the secondary market off a wish list. If I see something I like and think it may sell out I will buy direct. Only buy what you like, get out your coins and look at them. Appreciate them. People at cash registers think I'm strange, looking at my change for commemoratives or key dates. There are many ways to participate in the hobby without it costing a fortune. Set some spending limits and stick to them. Silveroid said in a previous post something that made a good deal of sense. Take the time to think, does this purchase fit into my collection, do I like the coin or am I buying because it is a good price. If you take the time to think you may in fact decide it does not fit and you did not need that coin at all.
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yingyang's Avatar
Canada
1823 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yingyang to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The cases are so cheap, a member here was given several for free by his post office


@ pocket change 50


These were given for free to anyone from the post office in Canada awhile back.


Quote:
I have been unloading a lot of my older stuff with high mintages


My wife and myself decided to sell off a lot of are collection mostly doubles .

We are very picky of what we are purchasing as to many coins being pumped out at the mint .We will be buying more sml eagles and bars .




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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm glad to see others sharing their insights and opinions. It's also interesting to see many coming to similar conclusions. I will admit it's comforting to see some of my thoughts validated by others. The reason I say this, I'm on potent painkillers and sometimes wonder, how it effects my thought processes. I do see myself being in the hobby long term. Like Commens, I started with collecting circulation coins and have a large collection of Canadian circulation coins. I also have all yearly proof sets from 1994 to last year. I do intend on getting this years set. I also need to complete my silver dollar set. I also love my large cent collection!
I guess towards the end of 2012 I got swept along in the lure of Nclt coin, I love artwork. At this time period their prices weren't falling and there were wonderful coins like the titanic series. Also coins weren't depreciating, some even made gains. I think 2013 was the first yr that RCM ramped up production and then secondary market deals became plentiful. I know I worked hard at finding bargains on ebay in 2012.

I also learned a lot of Candian history, each purchase was thrilling. Then I think somewhere along the line I became addicted. Hence the need for the sudden break and reevaluation. The other salient point, is for over a yr I've been house bound with chronic hip & back pain. My hip replacement has been postponed til May. As there's been miscommunication with the Drs office. I've been waiting for them to call and they've been waiting on me. Finially straightened out in feb. so I spent my days looking at coins and ads. The forums have really saved my sanity, as these are my social outlet, until I'm healed and able to leave the house.
So I started thinking what would happen if an emergency cropped up and I needed to ebay part of my collection. The current reality is depressing. I'm fortunate about have my purchases were below issue. However there's still many bought at issue for $100-up. I had been meaning on cutting back since sept. Then I received a call from the mint for my own rep. It made it had having coin offers coming for all sorts of places. Of course starting a sub you want to continue even if you don't like have the coins.
I've got to break the idea of completing a sub. Then I noticed all the shipping boxes piling up and of course where to put the new coins. I was already having problems finding where I put certain coins. Hunting was hard because most movement is most painful when having to bend joints. As the pain is spread to my left back, hip, and knee. So a lot of my cutting back is practical. Like Commens says there's many ways to enjoy a collection other than purchases. I'm currently enjoying the reading, history and sharing with other collectors.

There's alot of wisdom here at CCF. It's a great resource. Hopefully the mints will eventually hear what people are saying and scale back and reduce prices. Coupled with offering a truly unique product. I'm fortunate to haves many desirable and low Mintage coins. I agree with what people have expressed. I'm glad people feel comfortable enough to express their honest opinion. I truly appreciate each heart felt welcome back being expressed, it means a great deal to be missed!! Since being part of an online community has replaced being in a real community for me the past 18 months. I can barely wait until I'm healed and can start walking again. This will also help with reducing my coin spending.

For newer members , it's a good time to enter, many bargains are on the secondary market. Do set a budget and what for sales. I'd be careful buying at issue unless you're comfortable with your coin declining in value. Remember everyone has different collecting goals, so it's important to know what yours are and go over them periodically.
Making sure you don't over extend yourself.
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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
17949 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
pocketchange50 - what you say about the RCM could equally apply to The Royal Mint here in Britain. Prices of proof and uncirculated sets increase dramatically year on year, lots of new NCLT coins such as the 'annual' silver £20 and £100, Chinese New Year, a change to the Queen's portrait halfway through 2015 so they can sell everyone an extra set, all the new Britannia denominations... I too have really cut back on my purchases in recent years!
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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2015  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There definitely seems to be many who are rethinking their position on Nclt coins. Hopefully this will influence the mints. I'm doing many of the things you are doing Silver Don. The coin roll hunting is what my son and I started in 2010, as our bank is across the street. Like you said it's low cost. I also need to complete my silver dollar 1935-1967.

I just have found it difficulty breaking my Nclt habit and I not ashamed to admit it. Some of the designs are very alluring. Then when you look at the price compared to spot, knowing in a short time it won't be worth issue, is discouraging. So now I'm not going to closely follow mint releases.

I think they can turn it around by have mintages of 5,000. This would not over saturate the market place and a coin would have a chance of retaining its issue price. Yes, it does limit the amount of people who own one. Then again not everyone can own a rolls Royce , nor does everyone desire one. I think the past hype created is what drove sales. People thought they wanted or needed one.
A few examples really drove this home for me. The glow in the dark prehistoric creatures coins. Looking at Solds on ebay yesterday the first one $59 &$89, I saw this coin sold for $139 & $200 in fall. The others sold for $14 &$21
Next the hype created by Bromberg over the 5 Oz circulation set. It seems the magic was all hype and numbers were manipulated. This happens to most markets where there's too much hype. Leading to people engage in speculation, it is short lived. Then it takes time for the product to win back the confidence of consumers.
I often wonder if the hype that's created doesn't do more to s are away potential buyers, when after purchasing the product fails to live up to expectations!
Another example was the Disney coins, so many people I know bought into the hype by dealers and then are disappointed when they see the coin offered for less than issue by other dealers within the first week. Then the dealers continue to undercut each other. This doesn't lead to confidence in future products. This is when I really started to wonder about the sanity of buying new releases. I started to see the hype for what it was. I had been used to the coin hype since mid 2012, when I started to read coin forums. Read some of the posts from 2012&2013, they are very optimistic compared to the posts of the last few months.
I must give a shout out to Yup 7676, reading his posts about price action and how he was proceeding with his purchases, saved me a ton of money. I started asking myself more questions and I did become more cautious and selective in all areas of coin purchasing. His tips was most useful and showed insight. Commens is another person who has greatly influenced me and broadened my interests in the hobby. I also must give a shout out to another pillar of the hobby SPP Ottawa for his wonderful posts, that I've learned so much from and take inspiration from. Thanks to these individuals I have a broader understanding of the hobby, including new areas to switch my attention to, while waiting for the occasional Nclt piece.
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Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2015  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add purelywasted to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said pocketchange50.

My MC status runs out in a couple days, I came to similar conclusions as you did a little over a ear ago. Now I only grab $20for$20, the circulation pack and the rare coin that I want and think will sell out/increase in price (have not seen on in a long time). Otherwise most can be found 20-30% cheaper with a few months.
Valued Member
Canada
411 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2015  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sherwooddavid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with what you are saying pocket change 50,I've also decided to cut back on my RCM purchases for the same reasons. Take care
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Solidifier's Avatar
Canada
814 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2015  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Solidifier to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also agree with everything you said....I have sold off most of my RCM collection. Wanted to get at least what I paid for it before it went even further down into the crapper........I still buy the occasional Perth Mint coin or new zealand coin. I do buy the 20 for 20's and 50 for 50's......defiantly don't buy multiples of coins anymore. I also feel what you mean buy having to complete a collection......for me If it was a 4 coin series and a bought the first 2 and then disliked the 3rd one I would just sell the first 2 off......strange really gotta have a complete set I guess in my mind....the only set I have that wont be complete and I'mok with it not being complete in the glass set, there is no way ill pay $1000 for the ladybug
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United States
1026 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2015  08:50 am  Show Profile   Check omxfl's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add omxfl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think everything has been said already. But to look at it from a 'hobby angle' (this is what it is to me after all), I dedicate a fair amount of my salary to a retirement fund first, a portion of the rest is then spent on coins I like and coins I most likely will keep unless I get tired of them. This is what should come first - DO NOT invest in coins, it is too risky.

A budget approach should help any newbie. Set aside a sum you think you can afford, let's say $1-2k per year. Try to work with that.
Most importantly, keep track of your expenses, catalog your coins (Excel file will do) and save the invoices.

On the topic of RCM coins, yes, way too many being issued month after month. We are at the point of collapse of the market as there are more coins being released than new collectors entering the hobby - simple demand/supply principle...
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Northerncoins's Avatar
Canada
2019 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2015  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Northerncoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok enough of all that , there are still super nice coins being produced and worth owning, just need to have some discipline , have a budget and don't go over it, don't get sucked into all the hype of new releases, so what if you miss a hot coin , there are lots and lots of just as nice coins with low mintages if thats what you prefer.Your hands wont fall off if you don't get that "Hot" coin lol.
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