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Custom "Double Penny" Set Finish Question

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Quatchi's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 02/26/2015  1:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Quatchi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm hoping someone will be able to shed some educated light on this subject for me. The Charlton catalog used to list the finish of the Custom (double penny) sets as Specimen but have since changed it to proof like or MS-NC or whatever the flavour of the month is for the name of this finish...
All I'd like to know is are these coins of the same Specimen finish as their Prestige (double dollar) set counterparts or are they of the same finish as their standard prooflike counterparts.
The reason I'm asking is that it would be nice to have another option to get a hold of Specimen coins from 71, 72 and 73 that don't have any residue on them from the horrible red holder the early prestige sets came in.
Thanks
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Collecting mostly circulation strikes, I'm wondering this too. Anyone?
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My Charlton of 2009 has a section on Specimen Sets
1970-2008 Pg 345-46 Prestige Sets 1971-1980 Pg 347.

It notes - Page 345
"In 1970 the RCM provided special specimen sets to Prime
Minister Trudeau for presentation purposes during his trip
to China that year. A quantity of specimen sets in narrow
cases were made up. After Trudeau's trip, some of these
sets were sold to the public for $13 each. The total
quantity of 1970 specimen sets issued in Canada is believed
to be fewer than 1,000 and the only way 1970 specimen coins
were available was in these sets.

When the Mint made specimen sets available to the public
starting in 1971, they were housed in larger, eight coin
cases. These sets are listed under prestige sets 1971-1980
on page 347.

In the early 1970's empty narrow specimen cases became
available. The coins that could be housed in them were
taken from prestige sets of the year.
Finish: Specimen, Brilliant relief on brilliant background"

Page 347
"When it was introduced in 1971, the prestige set (double
dollar set) contained two nickel dollars, with the second
nickel dollar being used to display the obverse. This was
also true of the 1972 set; however, from 1973 on the second
dollar was replaced with a silver dollar. The coins in the
prestige sets are of specimen quality until 1980, and proof
quality thereafter.
Finish - Brilliant relief on a brilliant background.

Cases: 1971-1973: Crest of Canada; black leather, book type
with clasp, Red satin inside red flocked 7-hole stationary
display - coloured flocked jackets."

So, you have to get specimen quality coins from the
prestige set. If they come in a narrow set then they were
taken from a prestige set, just in a narrow case. The
issue with the bigger case was the toning of the coins
specifically the penny and the dollar. Possibly the ones in
the narrow case may not have been so badly toned as it was
the red fibre interior that toned the coins. I have not
seen any narrow cases but in the Charlton book. I was
upset when I received my 1972 set because there was no
silver dollar, they started in 1973, Doh!

Custom-
Edited by SilverDon
03/19/2015 6:58 pm
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found the section on the, 2009 Charlton 2009 Page 344:
"Seven Coin Nickel Custom Sets 1971-1975
The custom set contains one of each denomination, with an extra cent to show the obverse.
The finish of the coins is identical to the equivalent year of brilliant uncirculated, brilliant relief on a brilliant background."

They are listed as "Circulation Finish MS-65, Mintage 33,517, Issue Price 6.50 1971"

So I believe they are a different coin than the prestige which would be graded SP-66
"1971 SP-66, Mintage 66,860, Issue Price $12.00."
Edited by SilverDon
03/19/2015 7:20 pm
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chequer's Avatar
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 Posted 03/19/2015  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So, they're MS? They look more like PL or SP to me. It doesn't seem as though this should be so complicated LOL. Thanks for the info SilverDon.
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Short answer
Double Penny sets MS
Double Dollar sets SP

Had to figure it out myself.
Key is the price - $6.50 for the BU MS,
$12.00 Specimen.
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So, they're MS?


Yes - They are listed as "Circulation Finish MS-65,
Mintage 33,517, Issue Price $6.50, 1971"
"brilliant uncirculated"
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I mentioned, I don't usually seek these out, but I bid at my coin club's auction and won a '75 set for $3.50, so I'm putting them in flips and wanted to know what to label them as ... they still look different than MS to me though. Thanks again.
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1975 Mintage 36,581 Issue Price $8.00 Finish Circulation MS-65 trends $15.

As per Charlton Page 344 2009 Edition
I think you got a bargain

Was it in the 1975 Maroon outer case vinyl-covered case with Canada's Coat of Arms and the word Canada stamped in gold on the top. That is the case listed for this set. Custom set with one of each denomination with an extra cent to show obverse.
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Was it in the 1975 Maroon outer case vinyl-covered case with Canada's Coat of Arms and the word Canada stamped in gold on the top. That is the case listed for this set. Custom set with one of each denomination with an extra cent to show obverse.


That's the one.

I also won a 1992 BU dollar (.500 silver) for $4.50. I love coin club auctions sometimes!

I just saw you're in NS ... is it Halifax? The only active clubs I know are Halifax (I was VP when I was there) and the new club in Truro.
Edited by chequer
03/19/2015 9:39 pm
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1975-Canadia...em4d2f246d32

Edit - they describe it as a Specimen set but the Card says Uncirculated "Your uncirculated coins have been car..." in the photo, bad advertising.

Saw this one on the Bay for $19.09 Cdn. Yes in Northern NS, am trying to get to a meeting in Truro but it has stormed every week. Just missed a nice Specimen 1973 Quarter someone swooped in at the last second and outbid me, couldn't hit confirm in time. Argh.

BU Silver Dollar for $4.50 good deal as well. Nice.
Edited by SilverDon
03/19/2015 9:49 pm
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chequer's Avatar
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 Posted 03/20/2015  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just put the dollar in a 2x2. They aren't circulation coins as I have some '75 circulation dollars on my desk and the one from the set has the squared rims and the strike is a lot stronger. These have to be PL at a minimum.
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
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 Posted 03/20/2015  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The double cent sets, are specimen strikes, compare them with proof-like strikes...
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SilverDon's Avatar
Canada
2360 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2015  04:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I have to beg to differ, just going by what I am reading - Charlton 2009 Page 344 - set me straight if this is not accurate. I don't have a set, I have the prestige set. I am not all firmly entrenched in this argument - I have seen two ads, one the Coin Gallery for ads for Double Penny Specimen Sets and another I have shown above. In the ad above you can see the card. So I would like to try to clear this up.

Charlton 2009 notes - "custom sets with one of each denomination, with an extra cent to show the obverse. The finish on the coins is identical to the equivalent year of brilliant uncirculated, brilliant relief on a brilliant background." This is how the Specimen/Prestige set is described as well.

Circulation Finish - MS-65 - Trend Value $15
That was the kicker for me, as any specimen strike would be graded SP-, any Proof like strike would be graded PL-.
Here is the text. Issue price was $8.00 in 1975. Prestige Set was $15 in 1975. Must have been some difference in the coins with this difference in price. Edit - additional Silver Dollar included in the Prestige Set after 1973.

Custom-

Custom-
Edited by SilverDon
03/21/2015 08:05 am
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chequer's Avatar
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 Posted 03/21/2015  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd be curious in knowing what the new NCLT Charlton says (whatever it's called, I don't collect, so I'm not sure). They are definitely not MS strikes, there's no question in hand, now I just need to see some PL coins so I can learn to distinguish easily between PL and SP. I guess this goes to show not to take anything for granted, even it it's in print.
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SilverDon's Avatar
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2360 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2015  08:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My sentiments exactly, seeing the MS vs SP in the grade category made me think, then seeing Circulation vs Specimen in the Finish category made me go in that direction for the Double Cent Set. The coins talk.
Edited by SilverDon
03/21/2015 08:23 am
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